4 ms·

Windows 7 and above only? Ugh..

spicyj 11y ago
They've said they'll work on Linux support after launch and OS X if Apple manufactures a computer powerful enough (which they literally do not right now). But Windows-only seems par for the course for serious computer games.
freeone3000 11y ago
Windows 7 introduced the DX11 rendering pipeline, which the Rift uses. It's essentially required for no-delay rendering. (Which is even easier with DX12 - be glad it's not Windows 10 and up!)
- thearn4 11y ago
  Is OpenGL really that far behind the curve now? I remember a long time ago it performed much better for me on some games (I'm talking Half Life 1 days here), but in the 15 or so years since then its pretty much fallen off of my radar.
  - SXX 11y ago
    > Is OpenGL really that far behind the curve now? Not at all, but it's not what was popular last 10 years for many reasons and with Vulkan it's already legacy API.
    - cookiecaper 11y ago
      My understanding is that Vulkan does NOT deprecate OpenGL, at least not for most use cases. Vulkan is a lower-level API that OpenGL can be implemented on top of, much like Gallium3D. As such, much development will continue in OGL, and only lower-level tuning will require the use of Vulkan. Here's a lengthier discussion about it: https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/9717-Will-Vulkan-effectively-quot-replace-quot-OpenGL-or-not https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/9717-Will-Vulkan-e...
      - SXX 11y ago
        > My understanding is that Vulkan does NOT deprecate OpenGL, at least not for most use cases. It's clearly deprecate it in case of games and even more in the case of VR since you need high-end hardware that all support Vulkan. For other games and low/middle-end hardware you simply don't want to use OpenGL for cross-platform game since it's total mess on Windows thanks for Intel, AMD and Microsoft. So it's only usable on Linux / OS X and this is why PC game developers don't use it.
      - TillE 11y ago
        > Vulkan is a lower-level API that OpenGL can be implemented on top of Well you could do that, but the higher-level graphics APIs use fundamentally different abstractions which need to be awkwardly translated into a format that the GPU expects. If you put an OpenGL wrapper on top of Vulkan, you lose most of the performance benefits.
  - 0x0 11y ago
    Perhaps Metal could help on OSX.
  - theandrewbailey 11y ago
    About the time when DirectX 10 and Windows Vista happened (2006-2007), the OpenGL ARB was having some political difficulties, from what I understand. OpenGL 3 was originally supposed to be a massive improvement like DirectX 10 was, but it eventually came out years later in a massively trimmed down form. The OpenGL standard has since caught up, more or less, but performance is in DirectX's favor, and has been for at least 10 years.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  Since VR is pretty demanding and DX12 offers a slight perf benefit it's not unthinkable that some VR titles will be Win10 only.
  - shmerl 11y ago
    They can use Vulkan instead.
  - snoman 11y ago
    Based on my (admittedly sesame street) understanding, DX12 wasn't a 'slight' perf improvement over DX11 (which was already industry-leading) but drastic one.
BillinghamJ 11y ago
Windows 7 was released in 2009 - seven years ago. Even that is pretty far in terms of backwards compatibility.
- 0x0 11y ago
  Perhaps he was complaining about the lack of OSX/Linux support. I'm certainly looking to other VR solutions because of that.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    HTC/Valve claim to be working on SteamOS/Linux support, but it won't be ready at launch. I don't think Valve has given up on SteamOS yet, so there is reason to hold out hope. I had to install Windows for the first time in almost a decade for the Vive :( https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/412448158164353829/#c412448158165700144 https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/... [Anyone still on winxp is a dangerous maniac, and I sincerely hope that's not what the OP meant.]
    - dEnigma 11y ago
      Really disappointing to see that SteamOS is just a second thought even for Valve's own projects, seems like they don't really care about it after all.
      - coldpie 11y ago
        I think they do care about it. The guy in that support thread said they're working on it just earlier this month. I think that's at least a step up from "maybe someday."
  - uptown 11y ago
    I'm in the Oculus pre-order queue, but still don't have a viable PC. I think some of the pre-release Oculus headsets would run on a Mac. Is it a complete no-go with the production builds?

They've said they'll work on Linux support after launch and OS X if Apple manufactures a computer powerful enough (which they literally do not right now). But Windows-only seems par for the course for serious computer games.

freeone3000 11y ago

Windows 7 introduced the DX11 rendering pipeline, which the Rift uses. It's essentially required for no-delay rendering. (Which is even easier with DX12 - be glad it's not Windows 10 and up!)

thearn4 11y ago
Is OpenGL really that far behind the curve now? I remember a long time ago it performed much better for me on some games (I'm talking Half Life 1 days here), but in the 15 or so years since then its pretty much fallen off of my radar.
- SXX 11y ago
  > Is OpenGL really that far behind the curve now? Not at all, but it's not what was popular last 10 years for many reasons and with Vulkan it's already legacy API.
  - cookiecaper 11y ago
    My understanding is that Vulkan does NOT deprecate OpenGL, at least not for most use cases. Vulkan is a lower-level API that OpenGL can be implemented on top of, much like Gallium3D. As such, much development will continue in OGL, and only lower-level tuning will require the use of Vulkan. Here's a lengthier discussion about it: https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/9717-Will-Vulkan-effectively-quot-replace-quot-OpenGL-or-not https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/9717-Will-Vulkan-e...
    - SXX 11y ago
      > My understanding is that Vulkan does NOT deprecate OpenGL, at least not for most use cases. It's clearly deprecate it in case of games and even more in the case of VR since you need high-end hardware that all support Vulkan. For other games and low/middle-end hardware you simply don't want to use OpenGL for cross-platform game since it's total mess on Windows thanks for Intel, AMD and Microsoft. So it's only usable on Linux / OS X and this is why PC game developers don't use it.
    - TillE 11y ago
      > Vulkan is a lower-level API that OpenGL can be implemented on top of Well you could do that, but the higher-level graphics APIs use fundamentally different abstractions which need to be awkwardly translated into a format that the GPU expects. If you put an OpenGL wrapper on top of Vulkan, you lose most of the performance benefits.
- 0x0 11y ago
  Perhaps Metal could help on OSX.
- theandrewbailey 11y ago
  About the time when DirectX 10 and Windows Vista happened (2006-2007), the OpenGL ARB was having some political difficulties, from what I understand. OpenGL 3 was originally supposed to be a massive improvement like DirectX 10 was, but it eventually came out years later in a massively trimmed down form. The OpenGL standard has since caught up, more or less, but performance is in DirectX's favor, and has been for at least 10 years.
alkonaut 11y ago
Since VR is pretty demanding and DX12 offers a slight perf benefit it's not unthinkable that some VR titles will be Win10 only.
- shmerl 11y ago
  They can use Vulkan instead.
- snoman 11y ago
  Based on my (admittedly sesame street) understanding, DX12 wasn't a 'slight' perf improvement over DX11 (which was already industry-leading) but drastic one.

BillinghamJ 11y ago

Windows 7 was released in 2009 - seven years ago. Even that is pretty far in terms of backwards compatibility.

0x0 11y ago
Perhaps he was complaining about the lack of OSX/Linux support. I'm certainly looking to other VR solutions because of that.
- coldpie 11y ago
  HTC/Valve claim to be working on SteamOS/Linux support, but it won't be ready at launch. I don't think Valve has given up on SteamOS yet, so there is reason to hold out hope. I had to install Windows for the first time in almost a decade for the Vive :( https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/412448158164353829/#c412448158165700144 https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/... [Anyone still on winxp is a dangerous maniac, and I sincerely hope that's not what the OP meant.]
  - dEnigma 11y ago
    Really disappointing to see that SteamOS is just a second thought even for Valve's own projects, seems like they don't really care about it after all.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      I think they do care about it. The guy in that support thread said they're working on it just earlier this month. I think that's at least a step up from "maybe someday."
- uptown 11y ago
  I'm in the Oculus pre-order queue, but still don't have a viable PC. I think some of the pre-release Oculus headsets would run on a Mac. Is it a complete no-go with the production builds?