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I actually think this article is a bit narrow minded. Apple wants the phone to be your central hub (and has succeeded). You can't live without your phone. You u

I actually think this article is a bit narrow minded. Apple wants the phone to be your central hub (and has succeeded). You can't live without your phone. You use it for a medical study, for private messaging, for intimate photos, etc. making it compromised and easy to crack would bring halt to that thinking and make the phone's utility moot. It's not about Apple wanting to become a bank, for the same reason they aren't a carrier.

neikos 11y ago
I am unable to imagine that. For me, my phone is an annoyance. It interrupts me, the only thing it has that is useful for me is mobile internet (that I use rarely), emergencies, and music. How can one get so dependent on a piece of technology you ultimately do not really own?
- donkeyd 11y ago
  > a piece of technology you ultimately do not really own You can just buy a phone in cash, then you own it. Not owning your phone is a choice. Even if you're on a contract (at least here in the Netherlands), the phone is often legally yours, you're just paying it off.
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    If Apple (or anybody else) controls root access to the phone or if they can force software updates onto the phone, then you don't actually own the phone.
    - sean-duffy 11y ago
      I'm not sure that logic really holds, what part of the definition of ownership specifies this? If you drive your car without insurance it can be forcibly taken from you, does that mean nobody truly owns their car?
      - pdkl95 11y ago
        Toyota doesn't[1] get to modify your car without your permission. And yes, this means "nobody" owns the stuff they buy when someone else controls it. I take it you haven't seen Copy Doctorow's incredibly important talk[2] on this subject, which is the followup to his well-known talk about the War On General Purpose Computing. Never mind the car - if we don't stop this crap now, it won't be long before we see someone's prosthetic legs or cochlear implant "repossess itself". [1] Actually, cars are starting to have the same problems where they can be updated remotely, in addition to the copyright crap involving John Deere's explicit claim that you don't ever own their hardware. [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypRYpVKc5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypRYpVKc5Y
- flatline 11y ago
  Why do you not just own a cheap flip phone and an ipod then? Ownership is something of a nebulous concept in the digital era - copyright and licensing is far more important. You may own the device outright, but that's largely immaterial. The value of the device is in its access to the network and licensed content - music, ebooks, GPS, traffic, internet, texting, fb, chat, etc. Aside from a platform to consume content and access the network, the physical device itself offers little more than a camera.
  - wolfgke 11y ago
    > Why do you not just own a cheap flip phone and an ipod then? > Ownership is something of a nebulous concept in the digital era Richard Stallman told us that any piece of software that you cannot modify but someone else can has to be considered as malware. In this sense about any mobile phone must be considered as malicious, since there is (besides OsmocomBB, for which using is of dubious legality) no free baseband processor. Even more imporatant mobile phones are location tracking and bugging devices with built-in telephony functions. Thus it is no question why owning a mobile phone is a very bad idea in general (I know very few applications of mobile phones that justify these large flaws).
    - eclipxe 11y ago
      Your opinion is valid but it is largely not the opinion of the majority.
      - spacehome 11y ago
        You've summed up my life in a sentence.
- voxic11 11y ago
  I am dependent on roads and I don't own them. I don't see the connection between ownership and dependence. Also how do you not own your phone?
  - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
    Owning usually means you can use, modify and control/own what you produce with your property to your heart's and physical reality's extent. Apple owns your data and says what you can do with its software, content and devices. Much of which you license and do not own.
    - sean-duffy 11y ago
      How does Apple prevent you from modifying your phone? Sure you'll void your warrantee, but other than that I'm pretty sure you can do what you want with your phone.
      - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
        Try running a non-Apple signed OS on an iPhone.
        jsjohnst 11y ago
        Been done [0], albeit not on recent hardware. [0] http://linuxoniphone.blogspot.com/2010/04/ive-been-working-on-this-quietly-in.html http://linuxoniphone.blogspot.com/2010/04/ive-been-working-o...
        fucking_tragedy 11y ago
        Apple just has to issue a patch for the hack, and may have already, given that the project has been dead for 5+ years. edit: in 2012, it was deemed not a violation of the DMCA to jailbreak a phone. Whoops. I don't know what the consequences of exploiting a hole in their security implementation or possibly violating their ToS or EULA. Trying to profit from such an exploit commercially would test the waters by attracting Apple's legal department.
- aantix 11y ago
  I get that the Hacker News crowd maybe a bit more anti-social, but how do we continuously ignore what's going on in the general population (HN == anti-Facebook, anti-Big Bang Theory, basically, anything that's popular)? Have you been to a concert? A family reunion? A movie? People waiting in line? People are looking at their phones constantly, even to the point, where they're ignoring everything else around them. Yes, people live in their phones. It's so obvious.
  - themartorana 11y ago
    Yup. I do, too. I understand better than most people the trade off and what price I'm paying, but he reality is, I accepted it a while ago. I keep my daughter off of all social media (she's not quite 2) because I know one day she'll be more dependent on it than I am (writing this on an iPhone) and I want her to be able to create her own digital identity and not be stuck with hundreds of baby photos defining her before she gets a chance to. But that knowledge comes from how my wife and I use our pocket computers (because "phone" at this point is ridiculous, "mobile" is at least a bit more generic). I'm say, half way through my life. I can worry to death and stand against and whatever, or I can get on with life, and appreciate the convenience provided in the short amount of time I have left. It's just admitting it to myself. Once that's done (and it is) I can get beyond grandstanding and just cheer for encryption and join the EFF (I am a member) and so on, hoping to have some impact on pushing the privacy needle to one side vs the other, because we're going to use these things daily, likely no matter what.
  - justinh 11y ago
    The best theory of the formation of the universe is the Big Bang Theory. I check HN at least daily (often far more), and I haven't seen any posts regarding alternative theories or poking holes in the Big Bang Theory. What origin of the universe theory does the HN zeitgeist advocate?
    - kimcheekumquat 11y ago
      I think this comment just reinforces his point hahahaha
    - 11y ago
- micampe 11y ago
  You don't need to imagine it, you just need to look around and see what other people do instead of only considering your own use case.

neikos 11y ago

I am unable to imagine that. For me, my phone is an annoyance. It interrupts me, the only thing it has that is useful for me is mobile internet (that I use rarely), emergencies, and music. How can one get so dependent on a piece of technology you ultimately do not really own?

donkeyd 11y ago
> a piece of technology you ultimately do not really own You can just buy a phone in cash, then you own it. Not owning your phone is a choice. Even if you're on a contract (at least here in the Netherlands), the phone is often legally yours, you're just paying it off.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  If Apple (or anybody else) controls root access to the phone or if they can force software updates onto the phone, then you don't actually own the phone.
  - sean-duffy 11y ago
    I'm not sure that logic really holds, what part of the definition of ownership specifies this? If you drive your car without insurance it can be forcibly taken from you, does that mean nobody truly owns their car?
    - pdkl95 11y ago
      Toyota doesn't[1] get to modify your car without your permission. And yes, this means "nobody" owns the stuff they buy when someone else controls it. I take it you haven't seen Copy Doctorow's incredibly important talk[2] on this subject, which is the followup to his well-known talk about the War On General Purpose Computing. Never mind the car - if we don't stop this crap now, it won't be long before we see someone's prosthetic legs or cochlear implant "repossess itself". [1] Actually, cars are starting to have the same problems where they can be updated remotely, in addition to the copyright crap involving John Deere's explicit claim that you don't ever own their hardware. [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypRYpVKc5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nypRYpVKc5Y
flatline 11y ago
Why do you not just own a cheap flip phone and an ipod then? Ownership is something of a nebulous concept in the digital era - copyright and licensing is far more important. You may own the device outright, but that's largely immaterial. The value of the device is in its access to the network and licensed content - music, ebooks, GPS, traffic, internet, texting, fb, chat, etc. Aside from a platform to consume content and access the network, the physical device itself offers little more than a camera.
- wolfgke 11y ago
  > Why do you not just own a cheap flip phone and an ipod then? > Ownership is something of a nebulous concept in the digital era Richard Stallman told us that any piece of software that you cannot modify but someone else can has to be considered as malware. In this sense about any mobile phone must be considered as malicious, since there is (besides OsmocomBB, for which using is of dubious legality) no free baseband processor. Even more imporatant mobile phones are location tracking and bugging devices with built-in telephony functions. Thus it is no question why owning a mobile phone is a very bad idea in general (I know very few applications of mobile phones that justify these large flaws).
  - eclipxe 11y ago
    Your opinion is valid but it is largely not the opinion of the majority.
    - spacehome 11y ago
      You've summed up my life in a sentence.
voxic11 11y ago
I am dependent on roads and I don't own them. I don't see the connection between ownership and dependence. Also how do you not own your phone?
- fucking_tragedy 11y ago
  Owning usually means you can use, modify and control/own what you produce with your property to your heart's and physical reality's extent. Apple owns your data and says what you can do with its software, content and devices. Much of which you license and do not own.
  - sean-duffy 11y ago
    How does Apple prevent you from modifying your phone? Sure you'll void your warrantee, but other than that I'm pretty sure you can do what you want with your phone.
    - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
      Try running a non-Apple signed OS on an iPhone.
      - jsjohnst 11y ago
        Been done [0], albeit not on recent hardware. [0] http://linuxoniphone.blogspot.com/2010/04/ive-been-working-on-this-quietly-in.html http://linuxoniphone.blogspot.com/2010/04/ive-been-working-o...
        fucking_tragedy 11y ago
        Apple just has to issue a patch for the hack, and may have already, given that the project has been dead for 5+ years. edit: in 2012, it was deemed not a violation of the DMCA to jailbreak a phone. Whoops. I don't know what the consequences of exploiting a hole in their security implementation or possibly violating their ToS or EULA. Trying to profit from such an exploit commercially would test the waters by attracting Apple's legal department.
aantix 11y ago
I get that the Hacker News crowd maybe a bit more anti-social, but how do we continuously ignore what's going on in the general population (HN == anti-Facebook, anti-Big Bang Theory, basically, anything that's popular)? Have you been to a concert? A family reunion? A movie? People waiting in line? People are looking at their phones constantly, even to the point, where they're ignoring everything else around them. Yes, people live in their phones. It's so obvious.
- themartorana 11y ago
  Yup. I do, too. I understand better than most people the trade off and what price I'm paying, but he reality is, I accepted it a while ago. I keep my daughter off of all social media (she's not quite 2) because I know one day she'll be more dependent on it than I am (writing this on an iPhone) and I want her to be able to create her own digital identity and not be stuck with hundreds of baby photos defining her before she gets a chance to. But that knowledge comes from how my wife and I use our pocket computers (because "phone" at this point is ridiculous, "mobile" is at least a bit more generic). I'm say, half way through my life. I can worry to death and stand against and whatever, or I can get on with life, and appreciate the convenience provided in the short amount of time I have left. It's just admitting it to myself. Once that's done (and it is) I can get beyond grandstanding and just cheer for encryption and join the EFF (I am a member) and so on, hoping to have some impact on pushing the privacy needle to one side vs the other, because we're going to use these things daily, likely no matter what.
- justinh 11y ago
  The best theory of the formation of the universe is the Big Bang Theory. I check HN at least daily (often far more), and I haven't seen any posts regarding alternative theories or poking holes in the Big Bang Theory. What origin of the universe theory does the HN zeitgeist advocate?
  - kimcheekumquat 11y ago
    I think this comment just reinforces his point hahahaha
  - 11y ago
micampe 11y ago
You don't need to imagine it, you just need to look around and see what other people do instead of only considering your own use case.