5 ms·

Massive Robots Keep Docks Shipshape

39 points by eplanit 11y ago

chris_wot 11y ago
I love this :-) However, how does 10s of millions of dollars in investment pay off in the end? Are the efficiencies that important - and if so, does anyone know where precisely savings are made?
- Shivetya 11y ago
  I would assume that they don't tire, have as many safety issues, and don't mind the weather. Plus they don't go on strike. Throw in as automation improves then efficiency will go up and this will make moving goods even cheaper regardless of source. The more we can move people out of physically dangerous situations the better. That crane operator sitting in the air conditioned office certainly sees a benefit. Eventually the cargo will get loaded on robotic trucks, trains, and the like, and its trip across the country will be similar. Akin to changing the whole distribution process across the world into a large scale warehouse.
  - Gravityloss 11y ago
    They don't go on strike. They can however likely be hacked. Ports are a vulnerable point of societies.
- ThomPete 11y ago
  It's extremely important. Think of it as friction which matters in the volumens we are talking about here. There is a great book written about shipping called The Box http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/0691136408 http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/... Really fascinating stuff.
- Analemma_ 11y ago
  In shipping, volumes are so huge that, for all practical purposes, improvements in marginal costs justify any upfront expenditure. That's why freight companies keep buying these $200MM+ ships even though the improvement in fuel costs over their existing fleet is just a few percent.
twright 11y ago
Despite the obvious advantages of reduced costs and increased efficiency, standardized containers were initially resisted in the shipping industry (~1950s). We're no doubt going to see the same resistance to dock automation. Anyone interested in this more should read "The Box".
- pm90 11y ago
  Amazon link to the book, in case people are curios: http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/0691136408 http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/...
xupybd 11y ago
The move to automation is going to be painful; people will loose jobs. But in the age of the global economy, I think it's the only hope for countries like America to outcompete their low wage neighbours. History has shown that as we mechanise, new jobs appear. I'm not sure there that it's possible to stifle automation and maintain economic growth in the developed world. That said I'm sure that is of little comfort to a dock worker.
- blacksmith_tb 11y ago
  Dock work is dangerous, and thus also well-compensated. So these lost jobs will make more of a splash (so to speak) than many.
Animats 11y ago
The US is behind in dock automation, but that seems to be because US ports are typically many little operators instead of one big one. The Port of Rotterdam operates a highly automated port. The Port of Los Angeles is a landlord; the port operators are private companies. The real question is where you do the container sorting. There are several approaches. One is to unload containers and move them to container stacks, from which they are later unstacked as requested and moved to trucks or trains. Rotterdam and most of the highly automated ports are set up that way. Another is to unload containers from ships directly onto railroad cars or trucks. The Port of Los Angeles does a lot of this. They have a good rail connection, built a few years ago, that bypasses LA traffic. Unloading ships to railcars implies sorting somewhere else. For LA, "somewhere else" is often Fontana, CA, which is about 30 miles east of LA and beyond the traffic, but has access to four major Interstates and major rail lines. Railcar sorting takes place in railroad hump yards, which have been automated since the 1950s. Europe doesn't do as much railcar sorting because they still have crappy manual freight car couplers. The US uses standard automatic couplers on all freight cars (Congress mandated this in 1893), but the UK and Western Europe still have mostly manual couplers of a 1830 design on freight trains. (Yes, there's an EU standard automatic coupler, but it's not used much.) As a result, hump yards are rare in Europe. The freight rolling stock is also lighter because the couplers are weaker. That's why you still see dinky freight cars in Europe. Also, the US has a bigger loading gauge, and most US mainline track will now accommodate double-stacked container cars. The US is way ahead of the EU in freight rail.
- pm90 11y ago
  Are US railroads designed for double stacking, though? I've seen many railroads criss-crossed by highway overpasses etc. Wouldn't that put double stacking out of the question?
  - Retric 11y ago
    That's just a question of clearance. I have seen many double stacked rail cars in the US. The bottom car looks like a tub which lowers the stack. ed: "Introduced in North America in 1984, double stack has become increasingly common there, being used for nearly 70% of United States intermodal shipments." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-stack_rail_transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-stack_rail_transport
Terr_ 11y ago
> handing the boxes off to another set of androids Uhm, if they don't resemble humans, then they aren't androids. (Or gynoids.) I wonder how much "android" phones are to blame for the erosion of terminology...
- 13of40 11y ago
  I just got this image of a classic Star Wars scene: "These aren't the 'droids you're looking for. Seriously. Hell, the stubby one isn't even a 'droid. Look it up."
  - Terr_ 11y ago
    Very true... Although I think Artoo does get some major "person-like" bonus for exhibiting sapience and consciousness. If their dock-robots exhibit R2-levels of intelligence, I will withdraw my objection :P
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

39 points by eplanit 11y ago

I love this :-) However, how does 10s of millions of dollars in investment pay off in the end? Are the efficiencies that important - and if so, does anyone know where precisely savings are made?

Shivetya 11y ago
I would assume that they don't tire, have as many safety issues, and don't mind the weather. Plus they don't go on strike. Throw in as automation improves then efficiency will go up and this will make moving goods even cheaper regardless of source. The more we can move people out of physically dangerous situations the better. That crane operator sitting in the air conditioned office certainly sees a benefit. Eventually the cargo will get loaded on robotic trucks, trains, and the like, and its trip across the country will be similar. Akin to changing the whole distribution process across the world into a large scale warehouse.
- Gravityloss 11y ago
  They don't go on strike. They can however likely be hacked. Ports are a vulnerable point of societies.
ThomPete 11y ago
It's extremely important. Think of it as friction which matters in the volumens we are talking about here. There is a great book written about shipping called The Box http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/0691136408 http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/... Really fascinating stuff.
Analemma_ 11y ago
In shipping, volumes are so huge that, for all practical purposes, improvements in marginal costs justify any upfront expenditure. That's why freight companies keep buying these $200MM+ ships even though the improvement in fuel costs over their existing fleet is just a few percent.

twright 11y ago

Despite the obvious advantages of reduced costs and increased efficiency, standardized containers were initially resisted in the shipping industry (~1950s). We're no doubt going to see the same resistance to dock automation. Anyone interested in this more should read "The Box".

pm90 11y ago
Amazon link to the book, in case people are curios: http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/0691136408 http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/...

xupybd 11y ago

The move to automation is going to be painful; people will loose jobs. But in the age of the global economy, I think it's the only hope for countries like America to outcompete their low wage neighbours. History has shown that as we mechanise, new jobs appear. I'm not sure there that it's possible to stifle automation and maintain economic growth in the developed world. That said I'm sure that is of little comfort to a dock worker.

blacksmith_tb 11y ago
Dock work is dangerous, and thus also well-compensated. So these lost jobs will make more of a splash (so to speak) than many.

Animats 11y ago

The US is behind in dock automation, but that seems to be because US ports are typically many little operators instead of one big one. The Port of Rotterdam operates a highly automated port. The Port of Los Angeles is a landlord; the port operators are private companies. The real question is where you do the container sorting. There are several approaches. One is to unload containers and move them to container stacks, from which they are later unstacked as requested and moved to trucks or trains. Rotterdam and most of the highly automated ports are set up that way. Another is to unload containers from ships directly onto railroad cars or trucks. The Port of Los Angeles does a lot of this. They have a good rail connection, built a few years ago, that bypasses LA traffic. Unloading ships to railcars implies sorting somewhere else. For LA, "somewhere else" is often Fontana, CA, which is about 30 miles east of LA and beyond the traffic, but has access to four major Interstates and major rail lines. Railcar sorting takes place in railroad hump yards, which have been automated since the 1950s. Europe doesn't do as much railcar sorting because they still have crappy manual freight car couplers. The US uses standard automatic couplers on all freight cars (Congress mandated this in 1893), but the UK and Western Europe still have mostly manual couplers of a 1830 design on freight trains. (Yes, there's an EU standard automatic coupler, but it's not used much.) As a result, hump yards are rare in Europe. The freight rolling stock is also lighter because the couplers are weaker. That's why you still see dinky freight cars in Europe. Also, the US has a bigger loading gauge, and most US mainline track will now accommodate double-stacked container cars. The US is way ahead of the EU in freight rail.

pm90 11y ago
Are US railroads designed for double stacking, though? I've seen many railroads criss-crossed by highway overpasses etc. Wouldn't that put double stacking out of the question?
- Retric 11y ago
  That's just a question of clearance. I have seen many double stacked rail cars in the US. The bottom car looks like a tub which lowers the stack. ed: "Introduced in North America in 1984, double stack has become increasingly common there, being used for nearly 70% of United States intermodal shipments." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-stack_rail_transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-stack_rail_transport

Terr_ 11y ago

> handing the boxes off to another set of androids Uhm, if they don't resemble humans, then they aren't androids. (Or gynoids.) I wonder how much "android" phones are to blame for the erosion of terminology...

13of40 11y ago
I just got this image of a classic Star Wars scene: "These aren't the 'droids you're looking for. Seriously. Hell, the stubby one isn't even a 'droid. Look it up."
- Terr_ 11y ago
  Very true... Although I think Artoo does get some major "person-like" bonus for exhibiting sapience and consciousness. If their dock-robots exhibit R2-levels of intelligence, I will withdraw my objection :P

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]