3 ms·

It would be great to have this detail of map for immunology...but we can't grind up cells to meaningfully isolate and test enzymes as quickly as the old biochem

by medymed 11y ago

It would be great to have this detail of map for immunology...but we can't grind up cells to meaningfully isolate and test enzymes as quickly as the old biochemists because so much depends on signaling the 'state' of the intact cell, like whether certain genes/proteins are in an on or off state, which in turn seems to depend on a never-ending abyss of factors like what other cells are nearby or what media you're trying to grow them in. A sharp contrast to many basic metabolic pathways which have to be available ('on') at most times in most cells could be studied without needing as much or any DNA/RNA analysis back in the day. Sigh.

entee 11y ago
I think maps like this beautifully illustrate how complicated biology is. Now add in things like what the parent mentions such as cell state, external signalling systems and it gets worse. Much of this chart was mapped out using E. coli, S. cerevisiae (budding yeast) and other single celled organisms. It gets much much more complicated when you have multi-celled organisms. It also gets much more complicated when you recognize that many of those arrows are equilibria, so the reaction can actually go backwards under certain circumstances. And virtually every signalling system controlling these activities is an equilibrium. The interaction of all these systems makes biology incredibly difficult to understand in the kind of rigorous, systemic, mathematical way we would like to.
- imaginenore 11y ago
  Also each of the reactions shown is the intended reaction only, it doesn't show all the side products, side reactions, impurities, and what happens when things break.
leemailll 11y ago
I don't know anyone ever try to make a detailed immunology map will become, but I always assume them explodingly huge. I never took a second look into immunology after reading the first chapter of an immunology textbook

by medymed 11y ago

entee 11y ago

I think maps like this beautifully illustrate how complicated biology is. Now add in things like what the parent mentions such as cell state, external signalling systems and it gets worse. Much of this chart was mapped out using E. coli, S. cerevisiae (budding yeast) and other single celled organisms. It gets much much more complicated when you have multi-celled organisms. It also gets much more complicated when you recognize that many of those arrows are equilibria, so the reaction can actually go backwards under certain circumstances. And virtually every signalling system controlling these activities is an equilibrium. The interaction of all these systems makes biology incredibly difficult to understand in the kind of rigorous, systemic, mathematical way we would like to.

imaginenore 11y ago
Also each of the reactions shown is the intended reaction only, it doesn't show all the side products, side reactions, impurities, and what happens when things break.

leemailll 11y ago

I don't know anyone ever try to make a detailed immunology map will become, but I always assume them explodingly huge. I never took a second look into immunology after reading the first chapter of an immunology textbook