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I love this. Nothing really groundbreaking here, but it's still true from my experience. A few weeks ago, I went to a hackathon for domestic violence. It was..

by bpchaps 11y ago

I love this. Nothing really groundbreaking here, but it's still true from my experience. A few weeks ago, I went to a hackathon for domestic violence. It was.. interesting. Lots of cool designs and products came out of it, but none of them actually had any interest in designing a problem that had a broad and proper enough solution. The biggest problem? Everyone created a smartphone app except for mine and two others'. One of the lawyers who hosted the event and I had a conversation about this and agreed - this is the class of problem that prevents so many people from getting the help they need. They're simply aren't represented because they don't have the luxury of having a smart phone or constant internet access. (mildly shameful plug) - My submission [0] was a map of all DV centers, as nothing like that exists or even close. It was made by scraping domesticshelters.com's center names and plugging it into a geocode service. domesticshelters' owner refuses to use it because of the privacy issues of an abuser being able to find a shelter just as easily as the abused - which is easily solved by mapping to a city center as my code does with an attached phone number. I received last place, with 'honorable mention'. Point is, very few in tech really ever want to take on these hard issues since they're not fun, or they're not easy, or they involve social interaction with those they're helping. It's sad. red-bin.github.io [0]

CM30 11y ago
To be fair, couldn't that just be because generic mobile apps are seen as a way to get rich quick? Okay, maybe you'd expect a bit more from someone attending a hackathon, but from my experiences, every time I mention the word 'startup', someone immediately suggests or asks about a mobile app. For them, the only use of tech is mobile app that somehow blows up like Uber. It might be less about whether it's fun or easy or involve social interaction and more about whether the founder can see the dollar signs in his/her eyes.
- bpchaps 11y ago
  Yes, I think that's exactly the reason. Which is also why I'm a critic of SV. There definitely are great things that come out of the ability to quickly identify and create helpful apps/sites, but these days I'm wondering if the nuance of those who needs help is far more nuanced than app developers think. Or that maybe they they're aware, but they think "good enough" will inspire others to create their own, better/helpful service. In my personal experience again, the problem happens when the need for wages and time (jobs, unemployment, family, health, etc etc etc,..., etc) completely de-mantles that motivation. It's these sorts of things that make basic income seem to make sense.. as in, if addressing socioeconomic nuance is solvable only time and motivation, the only limiting factor is money on an individual level. My cynic side wants to call this "wage slavery", despite fucking hating that phrase. --- For what it's worth, the hackathon winners created an app for reporting DV by hiding it as a calculator with a passcode. It was neat, but after having dated someone VERY technical and someone who's NOT technical, these sorts of things would fall flat on their face. It's surprising how far their technical thoroughness went in both cases. non-tech girl: "My friend told me how to look at DNS cache and you were clearly looking at porn earlier." tech-girl: "I sniffed my ex's AIM traffic to find out he was cheating. Don't cheat on me."
- coldtea 11y ago
  >To be fair, couldn't that just be because generic mobile apps are seen as a way to get rich quick? In general yes, but as in the parent's case, this also happens when money is not the end target: lots of devs will just go and design a mobile app first, without really thinking it.
argonaut 11y ago
I think your expectations are too high. What else are you expecting other than a website or mobile app? This is the hackathon format: the end product is software, so people are going to gravitate to mobile apps, which many believe to be more ubiquitously accessible. Nobody believes the true solution (or biggest thing that needs to be done) to domestic violence is a pure technology solution, so all you're going to see in a domestic violence hackathon are small software products that chip away at the problem. It's not sad. Maybe (shocker) there isn't a lot that tech can do to solve domestic violence.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  I think your expectations are too high. What else are you expecting other than a website or mobile app? In a way, you just reinforced his point. Maybe (shocker) there isn't a lot that tech can do to solve domestic violence. At the core, most human violence is about some form of pain, fear, or resource shortfall. (Or perception of such.) There is much that tech can do about this, if one is willing to look beyond just the creation of an app. "Ecosystem" creation might well be capable of more than "just an app."
  - argonaut 11y ago
    Your first statement is a non sequitur. You also neglected to provide any examples of where tech is the best/necessary solution for solving domestic violence.
    - stcredzero 11y ago
      Your second statement is a non sequitur. I never said tech is a best or necessary solution. However, tech can be used to reduce fear or alleviate resource scarcity. My first statement notes that the gp comment basically says they're looking where it's easiest to look, which is the criticism they're also responding to.
      - argonaut 11y ago
        You haven't detailed any evidence showing why and to what degree products that broadly and vaguely affecting fear/pain/resource scarcity (resource scarcity is a dubious assertion in of itself - employee productivity growth in America has slowed - so much for the tech revolution) would affect domestic violence. Even if we take your assertion as "common sense," it could very well be that for every 10% change in resource scarcity, you have a 0.001% change in domestic violence. Not to mention it is questionable whether tech is actually able to make a big dent in fear/pain of the human condition in the short term, absent some wild singulatarian fantasy.
mindslight 11y ago
For what it's worth, smartphones can be had for like $40, and eg Freedompop now has GSM sims with 700MB of month of free data. The time/effort required for phone-less solutions to be developed and adopted might be less than the time/effort to get basic computation and connectivity to people who need them. (Disclaimers: I do agree with the ultimate point of the article, and your take as well. And I don't even like "smart phones" or assumptions of Internet connectivity for that matter. But those constants, they are a-changin')

by bpchaps 11y ago

CM30 11y ago

To be fair, couldn't that just be because generic mobile apps are seen as a way to get rich quick? Okay, maybe you'd expect a bit more from someone attending a hackathon, but from my experiences, every time I mention the word 'startup', someone immediately suggests or asks about a mobile app. For them, the only use of tech is mobile app that somehow blows up like Uber. It might be less about whether it's fun or easy or involve social interaction and more about whether the founder can see the dollar signs in his/her eyes.

bpchaps 11y ago
Yes, I think that's exactly the reason. Which is also why I'm a critic of SV. There definitely are great things that come out of the ability to quickly identify and create helpful apps/sites, but these days I'm wondering if the nuance of those who needs help is far more nuanced than app developers think. Or that maybe they they're aware, but they think "good enough" will inspire others to create their own, better/helpful service. In my personal experience again, the problem happens when the need for wages and time (jobs, unemployment, family, health, etc etc etc,..., etc) completely de-mantles that motivation. It's these sorts of things that make basic income seem to make sense.. as in, if addressing socioeconomic nuance is solvable only time and motivation, the only limiting factor is money on an individual level. My cynic side wants to call this "wage slavery", despite fucking hating that phrase. --- For what it's worth, the hackathon winners created an app for reporting DV by hiding it as a calculator with a passcode. It was neat, but after having dated someone VERY technical and someone who's NOT technical, these sorts of things would fall flat on their face. It's surprising how far their technical thoroughness went in both cases. non-tech girl: "My friend told me how to look at DNS cache and you were clearly looking at porn earlier." tech-girl: "I sniffed my ex's AIM traffic to find out he was cheating. Don't cheat on me."
coldtea 11y ago
>To be fair, couldn't that just be because generic mobile apps are seen as a way to get rich quick? In general yes, but as in the parent's case, this also happens when money is not the end target: lots of devs will just go and design a mobile app first, without really thinking it.

argonaut 11y ago

I think your expectations are too high. What else are you expecting other than a website or mobile app? This is the hackathon format: the end product is software, so people are going to gravitate to mobile apps, which many believe to be more ubiquitously accessible. Nobody believes the true solution (or biggest thing that needs to be done) to domestic violence is a pure technology solution, so all you're going to see in a domestic violence hackathon are small software products that chip away at the problem. It's not sad. Maybe (shocker) there isn't a lot that tech can do to solve domestic violence.

stcredzero 11y ago
I think your expectations are too high. What else are you expecting other than a website or mobile app? In a way, you just reinforced his point. Maybe (shocker) there isn't a lot that tech can do to solve domestic violence. At the core, most human violence is about some form of pain, fear, or resource shortfall. (Or perception of such.) There is much that tech can do about this, if one is willing to look beyond just the creation of an app. "Ecosystem" creation might well be capable of more than "just an app."
- argonaut 11y ago
  Your first statement is a non sequitur. You also neglected to provide any examples of where tech is the best/necessary solution for solving domestic violence.
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    Your second statement is a non sequitur. I never said tech is a best or necessary solution. However, tech can be used to reduce fear or alleviate resource scarcity. My first statement notes that the gp comment basically says they're looking where it's easiest to look, which is the criticism they're also responding to.
    - argonaut 11y ago
      You haven't detailed any evidence showing why and to what degree products that broadly and vaguely affecting fear/pain/resource scarcity (resource scarcity is a dubious assertion in of itself - employee productivity growth in America has slowed - so much for the tech revolution) would affect domestic violence. Even if we take your assertion as "common sense," it could very well be that for every 10% change in resource scarcity, you have a 0.001% change in domestic violence. Not to mention it is questionable whether tech is actually able to make a big dent in fear/pain of the human condition in the short term, absent some wild singulatarian fantasy.

mindslight 11y ago

For what it's worth, smartphones can be had for like $40, and eg Freedompop now has GSM sims with 700MB of month of free data. The time/effort required for phone-less solutions to be developed and adopted might be less than the time/effort to get basic computation and connectivity to people who need them. (Disclaimers: I do agree with the ultimate point of the article, and your take as well. And I don't even like "smart phones" or assumptions of Internet connectivity for that matter. But those constants, they are a-changin')