> In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the prison population is in there for violent offences.

> In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the prison population is in there for violent offences. When that's 100%, then other things can be explored, but a large part of the prison population is also not violent and that's a place to make change.