4 ms·

The EFF is a liberal lobby. I'm very concerned they are being regarded as the gatekeepers of our freedom, be it online or offline.

Nrsolis 11y ago
Well, if there was a more right-leaning advocacy organization that provided a similar level of lobbying and awareness for all of the digital issues that are important to people like me, I might consider contributing. I donate to the EFF now and will continue to do so. I don't like the mention of groups like Occupy and BLM. Those are anarchist groups and I have no use for them. Coordinating with them will do our side (the side that cares about making sure we retain all of our rights in the "digital world" that we do in the physical one) more harm than good.
- rz2k 11y ago
  During the time of the debate around SOPA or PIPA, I found the Cato Institue particularly useful for two reasons: 1. There are a lot of people who won't read something from an organization with a liberal reputation regardless of the merits of the argument. 2. Their arguments matched up closely with mine. From an economic and game theory perspective I was mostly concerned about the implicit favoring of incumbent market participants, where upstarts wouldn't be able to build a business involving anonymous user-generated content. And, that there would be fewer lively communities and discussions overall with anonymous contributors.
- mikerichards 11y ago
  I don't like the mention of groups like Occupy and BLM. Those are anarchist groups and I have no use for them Those groups are the furthest from anarchists groups so I wonder why you would call them that.
hackuser 11y ago
I don't understand why the EFF (and ACLU for that matter) are considered liberal. Aren't they libertarian, if anything? Don't conservatives care about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, religious freedom, and other civil rights? Rejecting the EFF and ACLU looks to me like partisanship over country or principle: We don't care what they are doing, we're going to reject them because there is some association with liberalism. Fighting liberalism is more important than civil rights or anything else.
- kazazes 11y ago
  The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism.
  - GeneralMayhem 11y ago
    Ah, Bill O'Reilly, that endless font of rational thought and uncannily accurate characterization.
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    It's not the ACLU's fault that reality has a liberal bias. (for a Bush-era, Bill O'Reilly-ish-style definition of "liberal")
  - hackuser 11y ago
    > The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism. They've been labeled as such for much longer than that. My point is, the label doesn't make sense. Bill O'Reilly doesn't like them because they are a threat to some of his political causes, like civil rights for people he doesn't like (prisoners, alleged terrorists, illegal immigrants, etc.). The ACLU opposes the much of what every President does - that's the main threat to civil liberties - including Obama's surveillance programs, for example.
- odinduty 11y ago
  The ACLU is also a liberal association[1], although I agree liberals and conservatives work together in some issues. There's no doubt about it. And yes, I think it's okay to reject them, because I am afraid of them gaining affection from everybody just to push an agenda later. If they wanted to herald digital freedom, they should have remained completely neutral in political issues, but they chose not to... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#Positions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union...
studentrob 11y ago
There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. As for being the gatekeeper, well, nothing is stopping you from making your own website or group and sharing your own views, or writing to and calling your representatives. They are likely really confused about the digital world and some might appreciate a call from any respectful fellow who offered to clue them in. I could be wrong but anyway it wouldn't hurt and it'd give you a sense for how far your voice can project.
- Umn44 11y ago
  "There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. " You are naive. "Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role." Crisis of democracy http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democracies-Trilateral/dp/0814713653/ http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra... Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ Manufacturing consent (book) http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499/ http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econom... Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 Manufacturing consent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://vimeo.com/39566117 https://vimeo.com/39566117 Testing theories of representative government https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi... Democracy Inc http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

Nrsolis 11y ago

Well, if there was a more right-leaning advocacy organization that provided a similar level of lobbying and awareness for all of the digital issues that are important to people like me, I might consider contributing. I donate to the EFF now and will continue to do so. I don't like the mention of groups like Occupy and BLM. Those are anarchist groups and I have no use for them. Coordinating with them will do our side (the side that cares about making sure we retain all of our rights in the "digital world" that we do in the physical one) more harm than good.

rz2k 11y ago
During the time of the debate around SOPA or PIPA, I found the Cato Institue particularly useful for two reasons: 1. There are a lot of people who won't read something from an organization with a liberal reputation regardless of the merits of the argument. 2. Their arguments matched up closely with mine. From an economic and game theory perspective I was mostly concerned about the implicit favoring of incumbent market participants, where upstarts wouldn't be able to build a business involving anonymous user-generated content. And, that there would be fewer lively communities and discussions overall with anonymous contributors.
mikerichards 11y ago
I don't like the mention of groups like Occupy and BLM. Those are anarchist groups and I have no use for them Those groups are the furthest from anarchists groups so I wonder why you would call them that.

hackuser 11y ago

I don't understand why the EFF (and ACLU for that matter) are considered liberal. Aren't they libertarian, if anything? Don't conservatives care about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, religious freedom, and other civil rights? Rejecting the EFF and ACLU looks to me like partisanship over country or principle: We don't care what they are doing, we're going to reject them because there is some association with liberalism. Fighting liberalism is more important than civil rights or anything else.

kazazes 11y ago
The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism.
- GeneralMayhem 11y ago
  Ah, Bill O'Reilly, that endless font of rational thought and uncannily accurate characterization.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  It's not the ACLU's fault that reality has a liberal bias. (for a Bush-era, Bill O'Reilly-ish-style definition of "liberal")
- hackuser 11y ago
  > The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism. They've been labeled as such for much longer than that. My point is, the label doesn't make sense. Bill O'Reilly doesn't like them because they are a threat to some of his political causes, like civil rights for people he doesn't like (prisoners, alleged terrorists, illegal immigrants, etc.). The ACLU opposes the much of what every President does - that's the main threat to civil liberties - including Obama's surveillance programs, for example.
odinduty 11y ago
The ACLU is also a liberal association[1], although I agree liberals and conservatives work together in some issues. There's no doubt about it. And yes, I think it's okay to reject them, because I am afraid of them gaining affection from everybody just to push an agenda later. If they wanted to herald digital freedom, they should have remained completely neutral in political issues, but they chose not to... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#Positions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union...

studentrob 11y ago

There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. As for being the gatekeeper, well, nothing is stopping you from making your own website or group and sharing your own views, or writing to and calling your representatives. They are likely really confused about the digital world and some might appreciate a call from any respectful fellow who offered to clue them in. I could be wrong but anyway it wouldn't hurt and it'd give you a sense for how far your voice can project.

Umn44 11y ago
"There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. " You are naive. "Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role." Crisis of democracy http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democracies-Trilateral/dp/0814713653/ http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra... Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ Manufacturing consent (book) http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499/ http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econom... Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 Manufacturing consent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://vimeo.com/39566117 https://vimeo.com/39566117 Testing theories of representative government https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi... Democracy Inc http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...