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I think this article is missing the idea of the browser hype cycle (Every 4-5 years): 1. A cool new browser comes along promising a minimal featureset with a f

I think this article is missing the idea of the browser hype cycle (Every 4-5 years): 1. A cool new browser comes along promising a minimal featureset with a focus on speed. 2. Early adopters make the move and start asking for a few features they liked on their old browser (extensions, some customization, etc). 3. The new browser is excited by the growth opportunity and invests in said features. 4. Eventually, the new browser is now so bloated that users start complaining about it being slow and look for alternatives. 5. See #1

okket 11y ago
Such a "hype cycle" can only exist where the OS supports integration of 3rd party browsers (desktop only). On mobile devices you can rarely switch browsers without losing access to major parts of the OS (read: 3rd party browsers can render/view web pages, but forget about integration).
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  >On mobile devices you can rarely switch browsers without losing access to major parts of the OS You mean "on iOS", not on mobile devices in general. On Android at least all such integration is done with Intents, a broadcast message from the OS or one app to another, and those Intents can be remapped to target whatever app a user wants, meaning a third-party browser can be as integrated into the OS as Chrome. You can even replace the launcher (the home screen) by having your app accept the "Home" Intent. Whether a particular browser respects the Intent linkage correctly is another story. But it's absolutely possible. Chrome is doing nothing secret and magic on Android. The exception is WebViews embedded in apps, which are rendered using the Chrome engine (on recent Android versions). But as an app developer, let me tell you that having random third-parties replace the WebView in my app is a profoundly bad idea. It's hard enough to target all the Android versions without having to also target every random browser rendering engine.
  - anon1385 11y ago
    >You mean "on iOS", not on mobile devices in general. Also on FirefoxOS and ChromeOS where third party browsers aren't possible at all.
    - lorenzhs 11y ago
      The first of which is discontinued and the second not an OS for mobile devices (phone/tablet)
      - anon1385 11y ago
        FirefoxOS still exists. Anyway if we are criticising organisations for creating platforms that prevents switching browsers then I don't think FirefoxOS's failure to achieve any kind of market penetration should exonerate Mozilla. FirefoxOS is/was objectively worse than what iOS does in that regard.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    > Chrome is doing nothing secret and magic on Android. > having random third-parties replace the WebView in my app is a profoundly bad idea You haven’t heard of Chrome Custom Tabs, have you?
    - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
      No, actually. Thanks for letting me know about that. Regardless, my point stands: If I'm writing an app and I use a WebView or a Chrome Custom Tab, I'm going to want to know, for certain, that someone isn't switching out the underlying rendering engine.
      - kuschku 11y ago
        Well, but that’s the entire point of Chrome Custom Tabs. There are even Presto and Gecko based implementations of it.
        SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
        The "point" of Chrome Custom Tabs seems to be performance and better integration with the system browser. I see that it's done via Intent, so it could potentially be swapped out, so you're right. So then WebView is more of what I'm talking about, for when you want tight integration, or creating something like a Cordova app (though you can bundle a Cordova app with Crosswalk to sidestep WebView differences entirely); looks like Chrome Custom Tabs is more for when you want a good web experience, not a good embedded app experience.
- swiley 11y ago
  Opera works great on android (although I guess it's still largely WebKit based)
  - johansch 11y ago
    Opera on Android is 99.9% Chrome, with a different UI (which I designed together with a colleague when I worked there). The differences in non-UI code mostly relates to memory usage optimizations - most of them should be upstreamed by now though.
- idle_zealot 11y ago
  I'm not sure what OS you're referring to here. I mostly have experience with Android, and know that my browser experience is nothing like what you described. Is it really that bad on other OSes?
- thisislame 11y ago
  Why would I ever want my browser to have access to anything outside its running context? In what universe is this a good idea?! I don't even want it to have access to the clipboard until I affirmatively paste contents! The browser is a window into an unsafe world of shit you don't trust or control (also known as THE WORLD.) It's SUPPOSED to be at a remove from your local resources. Lack of integration is a FEATURE. Creating browsers (and add-ons) without this design tenet from the outset is how you end up with MSIE and Flash.
collyw 11y ago
That hype cycle seems to affect most things. Ubuntu originally appeared on my radar as a stripped down fast version of Debain with a focus on UI. Now its probably the most bloated Linux desktop I have tried.

okket 11y ago

Such a "hype cycle" can only exist where the OS supports integration of 3rd party browsers (desktop only). On mobile devices you can rarely switch browsers without losing access to major parts of the OS (read: 3rd party browsers can render/view web pages, but forget about integration).

SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
>On mobile devices you can rarely switch browsers without losing access to major parts of the OS You mean "on iOS", not on mobile devices in general. On Android at least all such integration is done with Intents, a broadcast message from the OS or one app to another, and those Intents can be remapped to target whatever app a user wants, meaning a third-party browser can be as integrated into the OS as Chrome. You can even replace the launcher (the home screen) by having your app accept the "Home" Intent. Whether a particular browser respects the Intent linkage correctly is another story. But it's absolutely possible. Chrome is doing nothing secret and magic on Android. The exception is WebViews embedded in apps, which are rendered using the Chrome engine (on recent Android versions). But as an app developer, let me tell you that having random third-parties replace the WebView in my app is a profoundly bad idea. It's hard enough to target all the Android versions without having to also target every random browser rendering engine.
- anon1385 11y ago
  >You mean "on iOS", not on mobile devices in general. Also on FirefoxOS and ChromeOS where third party browsers aren't possible at all.
  - lorenzhs 11y ago
    The first of which is discontinued and the second not an OS for mobile devices (phone/tablet)
    - anon1385 11y ago
      FirefoxOS still exists. Anyway if we are criticising organisations for creating platforms that prevents switching browsers then I don't think FirefoxOS's failure to achieve any kind of market penetration should exonerate Mozilla. FirefoxOS is/was objectively worse than what iOS does in that regard.
- kuschku 11y ago
  > Chrome is doing nothing secret and magic on Android. > having random third-parties replace the WebView in my app is a profoundly bad idea You haven’t heard of Chrome Custom Tabs, have you?
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    No, actually. Thanks for letting me know about that. Regardless, my point stands: If I'm writing an app and I use a WebView or a Chrome Custom Tab, I'm going to want to know, for certain, that someone isn't switching out the underlying rendering engine.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Well, but that’s the entire point of Chrome Custom Tabs. There are even Presto and Gecko based implementations of it.
      - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
        The "point" of Chrome Custom Tabs seems to be performance and better integration with the system browser. I see that it's done via Intent, so it could potentially be swapped out, so you're right. So then WebView is more of what I'm talking about, for when you want tight integration, or creating something like a Cordova app (though you can bundle a Cordova app with Crosswalk to sidestep WebView differences entirely); looks like Chrome Custom Tabs is more for when you want a good web experience, not a good embedded app experience.
swiley 11y ago
Opera works great on android (although I guess it's still largely WebKit based)
- johansch 11y ago
  Opera on Android is 99.9% Chrome, with a different UI (which I designed together with a colleague when I worked there). The differences in non-UI code mostly relates to memory usage optimizations - most of them should be upstreamed by now though.
idle_zealot 11y ago
I'm not sure what OS you're referring to here. I mostly have experience with Android, and know that my browser experience is nothing like what you described. Is it really that bad on other OSes?
thisislame 11y ago
Why would I ever want my browser to have access to anything outside its running context? In what universe is this a good idea?! I don't even want it to have access to the clipboard until I affirmatively paste contents! The browser is a window into an unsafe world of shit you don't trust or control (also known as THE WORLD.) It's SUPPOSED to be at a remove from your local resources. Lack of integration is a FEATURE. Creating browsers (and add-ons) without this design tenet from the outset is how you end up with MSIE and Flash.

collyw 11y ago

That hype cycle seems to affect most things. Ubuntu originally appeared on my radar as a stripped down fast version of Debain with a focus on UI. Now its probably the most bloated Linux desktop I have tried.