7 ms·

Am I parsing it incorrectly in my head, or does this project have a blatantly antisemitic name?

by thinkpad20 11y ago

atom_enger 11y ago
I read it the same way. I don't think it was intentional. I think this name without the e would be much better.
dindresto 11y ago
Sorry if it is rather obvious, but I cannot see it. Would you care to elaborate? (no native English speaker here)
- atom_enger 11y ago
  It's the last five letters without the d. It's an ethnic slur for a Jewish person. Here you go if you're interested in the history or etymology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike
  - phamilton 11y ago
    The Etymology is fascinating: > The word kike was born on Ellis Island when there were Jewish migrants who were also illiterate (or could not use Latin alphabet letters). When asked to sign the entry-forms with the customary "X," the Jewish immigrants would refuse, because they associated an X with the cross of Christianity. Instead, they drew a circle as the signature on the entry-forms. The Yiddish word for "circle" is kikel (pronounced ky-kul), and for "little circle," kikeleh (pronounced ky-kul-uh). Before long the immigration inspectors were calling anyone who signed with an "O" in place of an "X" a kikel or kikeleh or kikee or, finally and succinctly, kike.
octatoan 11y ago
Kik was the name of the npm package that is the source of all the recent hullabaloo. "Kiked" is an instance of unfortunately misinterpretable verbing. I parsed it that way too at first.
josh2600 11y ago
You are parsing it incorrectly. Can I be 'kik'-ed. Kik being the operative word here not the slur to which you refer.
- earlyresort 11y ago
  Perhaps my background makes me a little more attuned to this particular word, but 'kike' practically leapt off the page to me. In English, words ending in a single short vowel followed by a single consonant double the consonant before adding '-ed' to form the past tense. That's the grammatical rule. I still can't tell if this project is by someone with bad grammar or some 4chan-bred bigot trying to make a double entendre, but either way, it's fucking obnoxious to see it on the front page of Hacker News.
  - ChristianBundy 11y ago
    Never attribute to 4chan that which could adequately be explained by bad grammar.
  - stordoff 11y ago
    I'm a native English speaker, and probably would have made the same mistake. 'Kick' conjugates as 'kicked', so I would have conjugated 'Kik' as 'Kiked' and 'Kikked' just looks weird to me. Though I've heard the term 'kike' before, I certainly don't hear it enough (I'm in the UK FWIW) that I would have recognised it unless it was pointed out (and obviously at that point would adjust the name). Your posts come across as ascribing malice to a fairly trivial (IMO) mistake. Politely pointing out that the name could be misinterpreted to be a derogatory term would have been a been course of action.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - joshmanders 11y ago
    > either way, it's fucking obnoxious to see it on the front page of Hacker News. Of course, because you can't read, it's obnoxious to be on the front page.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
Me too. I think the owner of this project needs to have a serious think about the name, ironically.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  For me the irony comes from the library being a name checker for trademarked words that itself could have benefited from some name checking itself.
coreyp_1 11y ago
Native english speaker here, and I have no idea what part of this might be considered anti-semitic. Maybe it's only in some parts of the world?
- alextgordon 11y ago
  kik = a messaging app kike = a jewish person
  - coreyp_1 11y ago
    Weird. I'm from Texas, in my 30's, and have never heard the word before. Then again, growing up I never heard anyone talking bad about Jews either.
    - partisan 11y ago
      I think you would have to wallowing deep in anti-semitism to use a word like that so it is a good thing you aren't surrounded by people like that.
      - phamilton 11y ago
        Or live in a predominant Jewish community and hear kids on the playground using it as a joke because both parties were Jewish.
    - skywhopper 11y ago
      I've never heard anyone say it in person, but I do remember the first time I was aware of it. The story is here under "Dispute regarding lyrics and context": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Don%27t_Care_About_Us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Don%27t_Care_About_Us
  - skywhopper 11y ago
    To be clear, the second is an offensive, derogatory slur for a Jewish person.
jessaustin 11y ago
You are reading correctly. The project name doesn't follow English inflection rules. Just as e.g. "tap" becomes "tapped", "kik" should become "kikked". "Kiked" is an inflection of "kike", just as "liked" is an inflection of "like" and "taped" is an inflection of "tape". This mistake is easy to make, since there aren't any English verbs spelled ending "ik"; words with this sound are instead spelled ending "ick".
- Tehnix 11y ago
  The "Kiked" should probably be read as "Kik'ed" and in any regards, "Kikked" would be wrong. Kik is an entity and not a word in itself here. Try replacing it with "IBM'ed", "Microsoft'ed", "Facebook'ed" etc. The last one is the closest one, you wouldn't be saying "Facebookked". As a side-note, I in no way think the author made any association with the word kike. Even though I know the word, I didn't jump to that conclusion at least, especially given the context.
  - gyardley 11y ago
    The entity has nothing to do with it. Back when I worked for the comparison shopping NexTag, for example, people would certainly joke about being 'nextagged', not 'nextaged', which would've been read as something completely different. None of IBM, Microsoft, or Facebook end in exactly one 'short' vowel plus one consonant, which is the rule, in English, that determines when the final consonant is doubled. That's why your examples don't work.
  - phamilton 11y ago
    Also, booked is the correct past tense anyway, so Facebookked is a bad example.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    Other languages might have special rules regarding proper nouns and their use as verbs, but English doesn't. Basically, we follow the normal rules for words, except in cases where that would cause a problem. In this case, following the normal rules prevents a problem. Incidentally, I would suggest "Microsoftened", since "soften" is already a verb that everyone is comfortable using. "Facebooked", of course, was a normal word in common use before anyone ever heard of Zuckerberg. Two vowels followed by a consonant is simply a different situation than one vowel followed by a consonant.
Normal_gaussian 11y ago
If the word isn't appropriated for other things its meaning will never change.
tbrock 11y ago
Seriously? I really don't think the author of this module sat down and thought, "hrm... how can I blatantly offend people" when they came up with the name. Wouldn't you rather believe that this person didn't maliciously name this thing and get on with your day? Not everyone on earth is a horrible person.
- earlyresort 11y ago
  Yeah, I'm thinking you don't have to live with 4chan and Twitter tolerating and increasingly normalizing anonymous bigots calling your ethnic group, which has been the target of genocide before, the equivalent of a nigger. Do you have any idea how telling me to 'smile a little' about this comes across?
  - mynameisvlad 11y ago
    It's an unfortunate naming choice, it's obvious the author didn't intend for it to happen given the context of the situation. Nobody is trying to use the ethnic slur against you in this situation, and you are, quite frankly, overreacting to the whole thing. A lot of horrible things have happened to Jewish people in the past, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to leap down someone's throat for what looks to be a very honest mistake.
    - earlyresort 11y ago
      The author's intentions are not remotely obvious. It just as easily could be an anti-Semitic double entendre referring to both the kik situation and Jews, and I'm still not at all certain HN isn't being deliberately trolled with this submission. Determining how I respond to ethnic slurs against me or my people really isn't up to you, either.
      - mynameisvlad 11y ago
        It may come as a surprise to you, but "ethnic slurs" is not in the curriculum for English, especially not overseas. This thread is the first time I have ever heard it, and I grew up in Canada with some of my best friends being Jewish. If I hadn't heard it till now, I can sure as hell tell you the author most likely hasn't as well. And seriously, what do you honestly believe happened here? That an Italian, non-native English speaker incorrectly conjugated the non-verb "kik" into the best he could? Or that he knowingly and maliciously took a jab at all Jewish people for seemingly no reason whatsoever? If it's honestly the latter, then I feel sorry for you. No, I can't tell you how to respond. But I can sure as hell tell you when you're coming off like an asshole by responding in the way you do.

Am I parsing it incorrectly in my head, or does this project have a blatantly antisemitic name?

atom_enger 11y ago

I read it the same way. I don't think it was intentional. I think this name without the e would be much better.

dindresto 11y ago

Sorry if it is rather obvious, but I cannot see it. Would you care to elaborate? (no native English speaker here)

atom_enger 11y ago
It's the last five letters without the d. It's an ethnic slur for a Jewish person. Here you go if you're interested in the history or etymology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike
- phamilton 11y ago
  The Etymology is fascinating: > The word kike was born on Ellis Island when there were Jewish migrants who were also illiterate (or could not use Latin alphabet letters). When asked to sign the entry-forms with the customary "X," the Jewish immigrants would refuse, because they associated an X with the cross of Christianity. Instead, they drew a circle as the signature on the entry-forms. The Yiddish word for "circle" is kikel (pronounced ky-kul), and for "little circle," kikeleh (pronounced ky-kul-uh). Before long the immigration inspectors were calling anyone who signed with an "O" in place of an "X" a kikel or kikeleh or kikee or, finally and succinctly, kike.

octatoan 11y ago

Kik was the name of the npm package that is the source of all the recent hullabaloo. "Kiked" is an instance of unfortunately misinterpretable verbing. I parsed it that way too at first.

josh2600 11y ago

You are parsing it incorrectly. Can I be 'kik'-ed. Kik being the operative word here not the slur to which you refer.

earlyresort 11y ago
Perhaps my background makes me a little more attuned to this particular word, but 'kike' practically leapt off the page to me. In English, words ending in a single short vowel followed by a single consonant double the consonant before adding '-ed' to form the past tense. That's the grammatical rule. I still can't tell if this project is by someone with bad grammar or some 4chan-bred bigot trying to make a double entendre, but either way, it's fucking obnoxious to see it on the front page of Hacker News.
- ChristianBundy 11y ago
  Never attribute to 4chan that which could adequately be explained by bad grammar.
- stordoff 11y ago
  I'm a native English speaker, and probably would have made the same mistake. 'Kick' conjugates as 'kicked', so I would have conjugated 'Kik' as 'Kiked' and 'Kikked' just looks weird to me. Though I've heard the term 'kike' before, I certainly don't hear it enough (I'm in the UK FWIW) that I would have recognised it unless it was pointed out (and obviously at that point would adjust the name). Your posts come across as ascribing malice to a fairly trivial (IMO) mistake. Politely pointing out that the name could be misinterpreted to be a derogatory term would have been a been course of action.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- joshmanders 11y ago
  > either way, it's fucking obnoxious to see it on the front page of Hacker News. Of course, because you can't read, it's obnoxious to be on the front page.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

oneeyedpigeon 11y ago

Me too. I think the owner of this project needs to have a serious think about the name, ironically.

slantyyz 11y ago
For me the irony comes from the library being a name checker for trademarked words that itself could have benefited from some name checking itself.

coreyp_1 11y ago

Native english speaker here, and I have no idea what part of this might be considered anti-semitic. Maybe it's only in some parts of the world?

alextgordon 11y ago
kik = a messaging app kike = a jewish person
- coreyp_1 11y ago
  Weird. I'm from Texas, in my 30's, and have never heard the word before. Then again, growing up I never heard anyone talking bad about Jews either.
  - partisan 11y ago
    I think you would have to wallowing deep in anti-semitism to use a word like that so it is a good thing you aren't surrounded by people like that.
    - phamilton 11y ago
      Or live in a predominant Jewish community and hear kids on the playground using it as a joke because both parties were Jewish.
  - skywhopper 11y ago
    I've never heard anyone say it in person, but I do remember the first time I was aware of it. The story is here under "Dispute regarding lyrics and context": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Don%27t_Care_About_Us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Don%27t_Care_About_Us
- skywhopper 11y ago
  To be clear, the second is an offensive, derogatory slur for a Jewish person.

jessaustin 11y ago

You are reading correctly. The project name doesn't follow English inflection rules. Just as e.g. "tap" becomes "tapped", "kik" should become "kikked". "Kiked" is an inflection of "kike", just as "liked" is an inflection of "like" and "taped" is an inflection of "tape". This mistake is easy to make, since there aren't any English verbs spelled ending "ik"; words with this sound are instead spelled ending "ick".

Tehnix 11y ago
The "Kiked" should probably be read as "Kik'ed" and in any regards, "Kikked" would be wrong. Kik is an entity and not a word in itself here. Try replacing it with "IBM'ed", "Microsoft'ed", "Facebook'ed" etc. The last one is the closest one, you wouldn't be saying "Facebookked". As a side-note, I in no way think the author made any association with the word kike. Even though I know the word, I didn't jump to that conclusion at least, especially given the context.
- gyardley 11y ago
  The entity has nothing to do with it. Back when I worked for the comparison shopping NexTag, for example, people would certainly joke about being 'nextagged', not 'nextaged', which would've been read as something completely different. None of IBM, Microsoft, or Facebook end in exactly one 'short' vowel plus one consonant, which is the rule, in English, that determines when the final consonant is doubled. That's why your examples don't work.
- phamilton 11y ago
  Also, booked is the correct past tense anyway, so Facebookked is a bad example.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  Other languages might have special rules regarding proper nouns and their use as verbs, but English doesn't. Basically, we follow the normal rules for words, except in cases where that would cause a problem. In this case, following the normal rules prevents a problem. Incidentally, I would suggest "Microsoftened", since "soften" is already a verb that everyone is comfortable using. "Facebooked", of course, was a normal word in common use before anyone ever heard of Zuckerberg. Two vowels followed by a consonant is simply a different situation than one vowel followed by a consonant.

Normal_gaussian 11y ago

If the word isn't appropriated for other things its meaning will never change.

tbrock 11y ago

Seriously? I really don't think the author of this module sat down and thought, "hrm... how can I blatantly offend people" when they came up with the name. Wouldn't you rather believe that this person didn't maliciously name this thing and get on with your day? Not everyone on earth is a horrible person.

earlyresort 11y ago
Yeah, I'm thinking you don't have to live with 4chan and Twitter tolerating and increasingly normalizing anonymous bigots calling your ethnic group, which has been the target of genocide before, the equivalent of a nigger. Do you have any idea how telling me to 'smile a little' about this comes across?
- mynameisvlad 11y ago
  It's an unfortunate naming choice, it's obvious the author didn't intend for it to happen given the context of the situation. Nobody is trying to use the ethnic slur against you in this situation, and you are, quite frankly, overreacting to the whole thing. A lot of horrible things have happened to Jewish people in the past, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to leap down someone's throat for what looks to be a very honest mistake.
  - earlyresort 11y ago
    The author's intentions are not remotely obvious. It just as easily could be an anti-Semitic double entendre referring to both the kik situation and Jews, and I'm still not at all certain HN isn't being deliberately trolled with this submission. Determining how I respond to ethnic slurs against me or my people really isn't up to you, either.
    - mynameisvlad 11y ago
      It may come as a surprise to you, but "ethnic slurs" is not in the curriculum for English, especially not overseas. This thread is the first time I have ever heard it, and I grew up in Canada with some of my best friends being Jewish. If I hadn't heard it till now, I can sure as hell tell you the author most likely hasn't as well. And seriously, what do you honestly believe happened here? That an Italian, non-native English speaker incorrectly conjugated the non-verb "kik" into the best he could? Or that he knowingly and maliciously took a jab at all Jewish people for seemingly no reason whatsoever? If it's honestly the latter, then I feel sorry for you. No, I can't tell you how to respond. But I can sure as hell tell you when you're coming off like an asshole by responding in the way you do.