5 ms·

I agree that we should have less people in prison. In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the pri

by rtpg 11y ago

I agree that we should have less people in prison. In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the prison population is in there for violent offences. Even knowing this, I still believe we should be reducing sentences (I have a hard time justifying putting anyone in a cage for 15 years as a punishment...) but there probably needs to be some alternative things going on too.

lkbm 11y ago
To put some numbers on the part of the prison population there for violent offenses: * Bureau of Justice Statistics says 53% of state prsionsers and 7% (what?!) of federal prisoners (2014): http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf * Federal Bureau of Prisons says 46.5% drug offences (no specification on violent v. non-violent) and 9.2% immigration as the third largest group. Second largest is more violent sounding, though: Weapons, Explosives, Arson 16.9% (2016): https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... I don't think non-violent crime should always mean no prison, but I suspect there are better ways of dealing with the majority of them. Also, since you mentioned shorter terms, here are the BOP's numbers of sentence length: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sentences.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sente...
- MajorLOL 11y ago
  Heres something to consider; Drawing such a sharp distinction between violent and non violent crimes omits many real-world factors. What kind of criminal is this person is different from what was this criminal convicted of. I can be a part time drug dealer, shooting rival gang members, robbing houses and pimping whores. But land myself in prison for 10 years due to my 6th possession charge. If you draw a hard distinction statistically, I fall into the 'I can't believe we imprison people for having a little pot' Additionally, what is a non-violent crime? Looks like good chunk of prison inmates are property crimes, larceny, burglars, thief. What percentage do you suspect of these non-violent offenders were armed during the commission of their crimes? What percentage would have turned violent if confronted during their crime? I suspect that these people who steal your car, break into your home and business and steal your things are effectively violent offenders.
  - kazagistar 11y ago
    > I can be a part time drug dealer, shooting rival gang members, robbing houses and pimping whores. But land myself in prison for 10 years due to my 6th possession charge. If you draw a hard distinction statistically, I fall into the 'I can't believe we imprison people for having a little pot' "You" are a strawman invented to support strict drug laws. How about we jail people for crimes we can actually prove they did, rather then assuming that if you sell pot, you must be "pimpin hoes" and "shooting rival gang members". > What percentage would have turned violent if confronted during their crime? I suspect that these people who steal your car, break into your home and business and steal your things are effectively violent offenders. I suspect not, but either way, I don't particularly feel like throwing them in prisons helps things at all. Read up on the gang presence in prisons: its its not like giving someone 10 years for stealing cash from your car is going to rehabilitate them very effectively, and certainly not with the state of prisons being what it is.
gnaritas 11y ago
> In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the prison population is in there for violent offences. When that's 100%, then other things can be explored, but a large part of the prison population is also not violent and that's a place to make change.

by rtpg 11y ago

lkbm 11y ago

To put some numbers on the part of the prison population there for violent offenses: * Bureau of Justice Statistics says 53% of state prsionsers and 7% (what?!) of federal prisoners (2014): http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf * Federal Bureau of Prisons says 46.5% drug offences (no specification on violent v. non-violent) and 9.2% immigration as the third largest group. Second largest is more violent sounding, though: Weapons, Explosives, Arson 16.9% (2016): https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... I don't think non-violent crime should always mean no prison, but I suspect there are better ways of dealing with the majority of them. Also, since you mentioned shorter terms, here are the BOP's numbers of sentence length: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sentences.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sente...

MajorLOL 11y ago
Heres something to consider; Drawing such a sharp distinction between violent and non violent crimes omits many real-world factors. What kind of criminal is this person is different from what was this criminal convicted of. I can be a part time drug dealer, shooting rival gang members, robbing houses and pimping whores. But land myself in prison for 10 years due to my 6th possession charge. If you draw a hard distinction statistically, I fall into the 'I can't believe we imprison people for having a little pot' Additionally, what is a non-violent crime? Looks like good chunk of prison inmates are property crimes, larceny, burglars, thief. What percentage do you suspect of these non-violent offenders were armed during the commission of their crimes? What percentage would have turned violent if confronted during their crime? I suspect that these people who steal your car, break into your home and business and steal your things are effectively violent offenders.
- kazagistar 11y ago
  > I can be a part time drug dealer, shooting rival gang members, robbing houses and pimping whores. But land myself in prison for 10 years due to my 6th possession charge. If you draw a hard distinction statistically, I fall into the 'I can't believe we imprison people for having a little pot' "You" are a strawman invented to support strict drug laws. How about we jail people for crimes we can actually prove they did, rather then assuming that if you sell pot, you must be "pimpin hoes" and "shooting rival gang members". > What percentage would have turned violent if confronted during their crime? I suspect that these people who steal your car, break into your home and business and steal your things are effectively violent offenders. I suspect not, but either way, I don't particularly feel like throwing them in prisons helps things at all. Read up on the gang presence in prisons: its its not like giving someone 10 years for stealing cash from your car is going to rehabilitate them very effectively, and certainly not with the state of prisons being what it is.

gnaritas 11y ago

> In order to be lucid about the situation though, it's important to realise that a very large part of the prison population is in there for violent offences. When that's 100%, then other things can be explored, but a large part of the prison population is also not violent and that's a place to make change.