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While I am not one to shy away from a political argument, it's pretty easy to put myself into TypeLevel's shoes. As they say in their blog post, due to the not

While I am not one to shy away from a political argument, it's pretty easy to put myself into TypeLevel's shoes. As they say in their blog post, due to the notoriety of the speaker it's almost inevitable that an event about programming would become an event about political argument. If they aren't in the mood to preside over such an event, it's reasonable not to have it at all. They are not obligated to be in the business of public debate, and the results of such debates could easily harm their reputation. It's important in life to pick your battles. Having read about the speaker in question, it's pretty much impossible that TypeLevel employees would be able to magically argue him out of his existing position, and it's probably equally inevitable that he would be unable to argue them into his position. None of the above seems childish to me. Most people I know, with few exceptions, make such decisions all of the time. Are you going to have a good Thanksgiving, or are you going to get into it with your reactionary relative for the thousandth time?

analognoise 11y ago
You still invite that reactionary relative because that's what the event is about - family. In this case it's about programming. Being so gun-shy about different (unrelated) opinions people would cancel events isn't absurd? Any gathering over 10 people is likely to have at least one asshole in the bunch. I get the feeling actual programmers aren't pushing this PC crap, but hangers-on who want to dictate everyone else's thoughts - and they're scoring victories, which seems even crazier to me.
13thLetter 11y ago
But that's simply victim-blaming. This is a professional conference about a particular apolitical topic. If the speaker, no matter how controversial or unpopular his unrelated personal views might be, is going to stay on the topic and not bring up politics, then anyone who tries to bring politics into it is being the disruptive force, not the speaker, and that is the person who is creating an unsafe atmosphere and needs to be ejected from the conference. > it's pretty much impossible that TypeLevel employees would be able to magically argue him out of his existing position, and it's probably equally inevitable that he would be unable to argue them into his position. Why is it necessary for either of them to argue the other into their position? > Are you going to have a good Thanksgiving, or are you going to get into it with your reactionary relative for the thousandth time? I'll tell you what I wouldn't do: I certainly wouldn't demand that my reactionary relative not be permitted to attend, and if she's gracious enough to not start a fight at the dinner table I won't start one myself. If she can be polite, I can be polite.
- nrinaudo 11y ago
  But typelevel has not cancelled lambdaconf, nor asked for it to be cancelled or even change its speakers lineup. They decided not to hold another event that was affiliated with lambdaconf. If we're going to keep running with this thanksgiving comparison, they're not asking for the relative not be invited. They're having a party the day after, a party to which the crazy relative was never invited, and decided to cancel that.
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    > They decided not to hold another event that was affiliated with lambdaconf. You make it sound like they randomly woke up one day and decided, for no particular reason whatsoever, to not hold an event they had already put enormous effort into planning and scheduling. They are cancelling their event in an attempt to pressure LambdaConf into bowing to their political demands. > If we're going to keep running with this thanksgiving comparison, they're not asking for the relative not be invited. They're having a party the day after, a party to which the crazy relative was never invited, and decided to cancel that. How would that behavior make any sense, though, if you're a person who doesn't want to disrupt the Thanksgiving dinner? They already didn't invite the crazy relative to their own party; what more do they want?
    - nrinaudo 11y ago
      No, they are cancelling an event because they feel holding it would endorse views they find disgusting. You might not agree that it does, or that the views are disgusting, but that is irrelevant to their decision. The only people truly inconvenienced by this are: - themselves, because they're throwing away a lot of hard work - the people that wanted to attend their conf, which makes typelevel look bad, not lambdaconf. Back to the thanksgiving dinner thing: they don't really want anything other than to make it clear what they're having an issue with. But they're not asking for anything, just saying: this is incompatible with my values, I'm taking myself out. What else do you want them to do? Compromise their values? Who are you to demand that of them? Or demand the crazy relative be booted, making the whole thing horrible for the host? They took the only reasonable action given their values: take themselves out of the equation, and explain why. Anything else would have been either childish or cowardly (again, given their core values, which you might disagree with or not feel quite as strongly about).

analognoise 11y ago

You still invite that reactionary relative because that's what the event is about - family. In this case it's about programming. Being so gun-shy about different (unrelated) opinions people would cancel events isn't absurd? Any gathering over 10 people is likely to have at least one asshole in the bunch. I get the feeling actual programmers aren't pushing this PC crap, but hangers-on who want to dictate everyone else's thoughts - and they're scoring victories, which seems even crazier to me.

13thLetter 11y ago

But that's simply victim-blaming. This is a professional conference about a particular apolitical topic. If the speaker, no matter how controversial or unpopular his unrelated personal views might be, is going to stay on the topic and not bring up politics, then anyone who tries to bring politics into it is being the disruptive force, not the speaker, and that is the person who is creating an unsafe atmosphere and needs to be ejected from the conference. > it's pretty much impossible that TypeLevel employees would be able to magically argue him out of his existing position, and it's probably equally inevitable that he would be unable to argue them into his position. Why is it necessary for either of them to argue the other into their position? > Are you going to have a good Thanksgiving, or are you going to get into it with your reactionary relative for the thousandth time? I'll tell you what I wouldn't do: I certainly wouldn't demand that my reactionary relative not be permitted to attend, and if she's gracious enough to not start a fight at the dinner table I won't start one myself. If she can be polite, I can be polite.

nrinaudo 11y ago
But typelevel has not cancelled lambdaconf, nor asked for it to be cancelled or even change its speakers lineup. They decided not to hold another event that was affiliated with lambdaconf. If we're going to keep running with this thanksgiving comparison, they're not asking for the relative not be invited. They're having a party the day after, a party to which the crazy relative was never invited, and decided to cancel that.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  > They decided not to hold another event that was affiliated with lambdaconf. You make it sound like they randomly woke up one day and decided, for no particular reason whatsoever, to not hold an event they had already put enormous effort into planning and scheduling. They are cancelling their event in an attempt to pressure LambdaConf into bowing to their political demands. > If we're going to keep running with this thanksgiving comparison, they're not asking for the relative not be invited. They're having a party the day after, a party to which the crazy relative was never invited, and decided to cancel that. How would that behavior make any sense, though, if you're a person who doesn't want to disrupt the Thanksgiving dinner? They already didn't invite the crazy relative to their own party; what more do they want?
  - nrinaudo 11y ago
    No, they are cancelling an event because they feel holding it would endorse views they find disgusting. You might not agree that it does, or that the views are disgusting, but that is irrelevant to their decision. The only people truly inconvenienced by this are: - themselves, because they're throwing away a lot of hard work - the people that wanted to attend their conf, which makes typelevel look bad, not lambdaconf. Back to the thanksgiving dinner thing: they don't really want anything other than to make it clear what they're having an issue with. But they're not asking for anything, just saying: this is incompatible with my values, I'm taking myself out. What else do you want them to do? Compromise their values? Who are you to demand that of them? Or demand the crazy relative be booted, making the whole thing horrible for the host? They took the only reasonable action given their values: take themselves out of the equation, and explain why. Anything else would have been either childish or cowardly (again, given their core values, which you might disagree with or not feel quite as strongly about).