4 ms·

> It's pretty fucked up that thought policing has gotten so entrenched into our psyche that it's "obvious" an experiment should be discontinued, apologized for,

> It's pretty fucked up that thought policing has gotten so entrenched into our psyche that it's "obvious" an experiment should be discontinued, apologized for, and be pondered as a priori irresponsible, all because it generated vulgar phrases! This is fucking stupid. It was a bot that didn't do what they wanted it to do in a publicly embarrassing way. They could also be legitimately sorry that something they created said some racist shit, and it's not clear why your precious snowflake feelings have any bearing on what should or shouldn't be in a blog post on the subject. I do find it amusingly ironic that your post is the most I've seen someone offended over this whole situation.

MawNicker 11y ago
It's sad that it's ironic. It's always ironic. Tolerance is the intolerance of intolerance. It's true. Intolerance is shitty and I fucking hate it. I want it to die. I complain about it's enduring existence whenever I get the opportunity. I know I'm being ironic. Do you know there's no other option? I actually appreciated knowing that someone else saw the same condemnation. Microsoft is a world authority. That it just apologized for these things in the same motion makes them offensive. The reality was rather mundane. They didn't do anything wrong. They got pranked. This should be something we laugh about. It's only upsetting for the 5 seconds it takes you to realize: no one intended this. That should have been Microsoft's response imho.
- magicalist 11y ago
  I'm not making some cute comment about the intolerance of tolerance. I'm pointing out that someone apparently personally offended about a culture of outrage is the only one outraged over the whole thing. There have been no widespread condemnations of Microsoft, just a lot of mildly amused people. > That it just apologized for these things in the same motion makes them offensive. You're assuming motivations that you have no insight into. If I had made Tay I would apologize too. Any assumption you make is on you. So what is ironic is that there are people waiting with bated breath for the merest hint of something so they can express their righteous outrage on the internet, making demands for thought policing and handwringing over word choice, which wouldn't have existed at all if they had just said, "well, that's a corporate blog post" and moved the fuck on.
  - MawNicker 11y ago
    I would also apologize. Even though I had done nothing wrong. That's just the world we live in now. He (I assume, sorry) and I are personally offended and outraged because that is wrong. We shouldn't be doing this. We should just explain what happened. It's frustrating to see this behavior become so commonplace. We should just not be racist and not appologize. Otherwise wtf is reality.
    - magicalist 11y ago
      > That's just the world we live in now. Apologizing for things going wrong when you're the cause, even if that wasn't your intention, has always been the world we have lived in. Let's say I make a robot to spray down a sidewalk and it inadvertently sprays water on people in the vicinity, I would keep working on my robot, but I would also apologize to those people as I didn't intend that at all but it was still my responsibility. And it's just common fucking courtesy. This really isn't that hard a concept to grasp. > We shouldn't be doing this. We should just explain what happened. It's frustrating to see this behavior become so commonplace. We should just not be racist and not appologize. Otherwise wtf is reality. You really don't get it, do you? You are the outrage brigade, screamingly shrilly whenever someone says something you think doesn't fit in the list of allowable statements. - bumps into someone - "Oh, sorry about that" - "DON'T APOLOGIZE! JUST EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED!" > He and I are personally offended and outraged because that is wrong. Fortunately, no one cares.
      - mindslight 11y ago
        Actually it's more akin to you having an outside faucet, some kid using it to spray someone else walking down the street, and then you being expected to apologize for allowing the possibility. And there was plenty of positive reception to my comment. Not that I particularly expected it as I wrote it - speaking truth to power is never easy, and it's even worse in a democracy when that power is distributed throughout the herd. But don't worry, I'll continue advocating for the unpopular truth even after this buildup of reaction finally overflows and the prevailing groupthink switches back to jingoism and overt bigotry.
mindslight 11y ago
> They could also be legitimately sorry that something they created said some racist shit Just to be clear, it's not merely the corporate statement. It's a lot of the comments here, and not what they say directly but the assumptions they make. A thousand little nothings that make up culture - this concept is also part of the argument against casual use of slurs, right? What I'm calling out is the subtle yet pervasive idea that the content on Twitter, or otherwise subject to mass media exposure, is real serious business that must remain completely free of heresy. It's effectively a guilt-by-association that seeks to attach responsibility to the conduit of speech. > I find it amusingly ironic that your post is the most I've seen someone offended over this whole situation. Mea culpa. The phenomenon of feeling marginalized and repressed is certainly at the root of the sensationalist mess we are in, from all sides. Meatspace situations cannot be generalized, and there will always be some injustice. There are people who are legitimately grieved and lack recourse, just like there are people who are are persecuted over fabricated allegations. Each group will react to the injustices against their group, with social media magnifying the frequency to seem much more common than reality. And the only way the disconnect can be bridged is through talking and better application of situation-by-situation justice. But you know, there is such a thing as objective reality. And the objective reality of the Internet is that the absolute extent of harm that can be done is someone having to walk away. That is the Shelling point of pure communication. If one is exposed to the Internet (the single-most individual-empowering creation of humanity) and their reaction is to continue applying victim mentality to communication itself and seek to police content, then they are opposed to the very mechanism by which understanding can be achieved. And while you may be tempted to apply that characterization to my complaint as well, there is a key difference - despite the usual contemporary aim of ranting, my goal isn't to convince people to convince people to form a virtual pitchfork mob or whatever. It's to directly address like-minded people who are in the position most able to create change, by writing code that fosters decentralization instead of the monetization-driven clusterfuck of the past decade. Microsoft, being a corporation, will always be subject to rule-by-groupthink. But that does not mean us individuals must also continue being beholden to those arbitrary whims of centralization.
- jasonwatkinspdx 11y ago
  Minorities don't get to "walk away" from the biases that infect society. It is impossible to walk away from hiring discrimination (the presence of which has been confirmed and reproduced by controlled random trial study, time after time). So even though this is just stuff on twitter, it's not simply harmless offense, it's another tiny brick in the very tall wall they always face that white folks don't even see, because they started out life on the other side of that wall.
kelukelugames 11y ago
About 10 years ago, I remember people were incredibly offended when they couldn't describe negative things as "gay" anymore.
- JabavuAdams 11y ago
  Lame.

MawNicker 11y ago

It's sad that it's ironic. It's always ironic. Tolerance is the intolerance of intolerance. It's true. Intolerance is shitty and I fucking hate it. I want it to die. I complain about it's enduring existence whenever I get the opportunity. I know I'm being ironic. Do you know there's no other option? I actually appreciated knowing that someone else saw the same condemnation. Microsoft is a world authority. That it just apologized for these things in the same motion makes them offensive. The reality was rather mundane. They didn't do anything wrong. They got pranked. This should be something we laugh about. It's only upsetting for the 5 seconds it takes you to realize: no one intended this. That should have been Microsoft's response imho.

magicalist 11y ago
I'm not making some cute comment about the intolerance of tolerance. I'm pointing out that someone apparently personally offended about a culture of outrage is the only one outraged over the whole thing. There have been no widespread condemnations of Microsoft, just a lot of mildly amused people. > That it just apologized for these things in the same motion makes them offensive. You're assuming motivations that you have no insight into. If I had made Tay I would apologize too. Any assumption you make is on you. So what is ironic is that there are people waiting with bated breath for the merest hint of something so they can express their righteous outrage on the internet, making demands for thought policing and handwringing over word choice, which wouldn't have existed at all if they had just said, "well, that's a corporate blog post" and moved the fuck on.
- MawNicker 11y ago
  I would also apologize. Even though I had done nothing wrong. That's just the world we live in now. He (I assume, sorry) and I are personally offended and outraged because that is wrong. We shouldn't be doing this. We should just explain what happened. It's frustrating to see this behavior become so commonplace. We should just not be racist and not appologize. Otherwise wtf is reality.
  - magicalist 11y ago
    > That's just the world we live in now. Apologizing for things going wrong when you're the cause, even if that wasn't your intention, has always been the world we have lived in. Let's say I make a robot to spray down a sidewalk and it inadvertently sprays water on people in the vicinity, I would keep working on my robot, but I would also apologize to those people as I didn't intend that at all but it was still my responsibility. And it's just common fucking courtesy. This really isn't that hard a concept to grasp. > We shouldn't be doing this. We should just explain what happened. It's frustrating to see this behavior become so commonplace. We should just not be racist and not appologize. Otherwise wtf is reality. You really don't get it, do you? You are the outrage brigade, screamingly shrilly whenever someone says something you think doesn't fit in the list of allowable statements. - bumps into someone - "Oh, sorry about that" - "DON'T APOLOGIZE! JUST EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED!" > He and I are personally offended and outraged because that is wrong. Fortunately, no one cares.
    - mindslight 11y ago
      Actually it's more akin to you having an outside faucet, some kid using it to spray someone else walking down the street, and then you being expected to apologize for allowing the possibility. And there was plenty of positive reception to my comment. Not that I particularly expected it as I wrote it - speaking truth to power is never easy, and it's even worse in a democracy when that power is distributed throughout the herd. But don't worry, I'll continue advocating for the unpopular truth even after this buildup of reaction finally overflows and the prevailing groupthink switches back to jingoism and overt bigotry.

mindslight 11y ago

> They could also be legitimately sorry that something they created said some racist shit Just to be clear, it's not merely the corporate statement. It's a lot of the comments here, and not what they say directly but the assumptions they make. A thousand little nothings that make up culture - this concept is also part of the argument against casual use of slurs, right? What I'm calling out is the subtle yet pervasive idea that the content on Twitter, or otherwise subject to mass media exposure, is real serious business that must remain completely free of heresy. It's effectively a guilt-by-association that seeks to attach responsibility to the conduit of speech. > I find it amusingly ironic that your post is the most I've seen someone offended over this whole situation. Mea culpa. The phenomenon of feeling marginalized and repressed is certainly at the root of the sensationalist mess we are in, from all sides. Meatspace situations cannot be generalized, and there will always be some injustice. There are people who are legitimately grieved and lack recourse, just like there are people who are are persecuted over fabricated allegations. Each group will react to the injustices against their group, with social media magnifying the frequency to seem much more common than reality. And the only way the disconnect can be bridged is through talking and better application of situation-by-situation justice. But you know, there is such a thing as objective reality. And the objective reality of the Internet is that the absolute extent of harm that can be done is someone having to walk away. That is the Shelling point of pure communication. If one is exposed to the Internet (the single-most individual-empowering creation of humanity) and their reaction is to continue applying victim mentality to communication itself and seek to police content, then they are opposed to the very mechanism by which understanding can be achieved. And while you may be tempted to apply that characterization to my complaint as well, there is a key difference - despite the usual contemporary aim of ranting, my goal isn't to convince people to convince people to form a virtual pitchfork mob or whatever. It's to directly address like-minded people who are in the position most able to create change, by writing code that fosters decentralization instead of the monetization-driven clusterfuck of the past decade. Microsoft, being a corporation, will always be subject to rule-by-groupthink. But that does not mean us individuals must also continue being beholden to those arbitrary whims of centralization.

jasonwatkinspdx 11y ago
Minorities don't get to "walk away" from the biases that infect society. It is impossible to walk away from hiring discrimination (the presence of which has been confirmed and reproduced by controlled random trial study, time after time). So even though this is just stuff on twitter, it's not simply harmless offense, it's another tiny brick in the very tall wall they always face that white folks don't even see, because they started out life on the other side of that wall.

kelukelugames 11y ago

About 10 years ago, I remember people were incredibly offended when they couldn't describe negative things as "gay" anymore.

JabavuAdams 11y ago
Lame.