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This is such an incredibly sad Country. My wife is Indian, from Noida, we went there two years ago. I saw much of Delhi. The amount of pollution, poverty, filth

by X86BSD 11y ago

This is such an incredibly sad Country. My wife is Indian, from Noida, we went there two years ago. I saw much of Delhi. The amount of pollution, poverty, filth, homelessness including children that are begging in the streets hooked on who knows what drugs and being molested and raped is staggering. I remember one little girl maybe 10 that came up to my wife and I because she saw my wife using a small travel bottle of hand sanitizer. And she really wanted it. Didn't ask for money just that little bottle of hand sanitizer. She thought it was lotion. We gave it to her and she tried to use it like lotion on her arms and hands. She just wanted to be a little girl doing little girl things. She was covered in dirt, hadn't bathed in who knows how long. It's effing heart breaking there. I mean that. Women are constantly harassed at best, gang raped at worse. They can't go out after dark in most of the country. Indian male society HATES women. It's literally one step away from the Taliban. Not all Indian men, but its a majority. Women are not safe there at all. The police are lazy and useless. Corruption is rampant. Everyone is out for themselves. It's dog eat dog. Rolling blackouts. Unfit water supply. No proper sewage. Appalling infastructure. The country was in better shape under British rule. And that PAINS me to say that being Irish in blood. The Indian government has just failed the people. They are xenophobic when it comes to business. State run monopolies or family owned monopolies large and small. Very very hard for non Indian controlled capitalism to get in there. It is just such an depressing place. Which is incredibly sad because it has so much beauty and history and culture and food! I don't know what happened to that place. You go from the Karma sutra, an epic depiction of the love of women to gang raping women on a daily basis. WTF? Ugh, it's just sad.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dominotw 11y ago
I am Indian. I agree with everything you said, fairly accurate analysis of the situation.
- hir95 11y ago
  Bullshit. Have some respect for your country, motherfucker.
vr3690 11y ago
So you judged a whole country after visiting a single city? >one step away from Taliban Really? I mean, really? I would expect this kind of bullshit in maybe r/worldnews but not in HN.
- dominotw 11y ago
  He might have exaggerated a bit but overall conclusions are still right on point. I've lived all over india (due to the fact that my father was in Indian army) and what gp said is true everywhere in India. We have to admit what is wrong with our country. Feeling shameful, defensive, angry, proud, hurt ect is not going to help anyone and infact is counter productive.
  - sremani 11y ago
    I am never an apologist for the Indian State, but to say, India would be better under British rule, is a NO - NO for me. In spite of its failures at many levels and mostly falling short of expectations, India is a miracle. There is no other way to put it. The population of entire Americas, north-south and central is lesser than population of India. So, if you are seeing grotesque poverty and violence, well they are still there in Americas. Xenophobia is really not a phobia if you read the history of Delhi. I mean this city has been sacked since 10th century and regularly had its population obliterated.
neel8986 11y ago
I agree with some of the points you made. But saying that indian government has completely failed and it was better under British rule is not completely correct. Some of the achievement of independent India are 1) Fully functional democracy: India is perhaps the only country which is able to avoid a strong dictator among all its colonized peer. We provided universal suffrage from day one. Indian democracy is not perfect but we regularly topple corrupt or inefficient government without bloodshed or civil war. Considering the diversity in culture and not so educated population this is a great achievement 2) Creating a country out of diversity: During Indian independence Churchill said India will soon be broken down into pieces. Many others believed the same as difference between different part of India is far greater than europe. Still we survived any major secession effort and currently very few Indian want to be a independent nation. We have 14 major languages. Two of our south asian neighbours went to civil war just because of two major language could not coexist. We have the 2nd largest population of muslim living peacefully with about a billion Hindu population without going through radicalization. In retrospect this unity in diversity will be biggest achievement of Independent India 3) Food self sufficiency: Through out British rule famine was a part and parcel of our life. Just in Bengal famine in 1943 about 3-4 million people were killed. If you consider the magnitude it can only be compared to holocaust. Even in 1950s and 60s we had literally beg USA or USSR for food grains. Currently we are completely self sufficient in terms of food which is a big achievement considering the need for feeding more than a billion mouth 5) Strong Institutions: Independent India has created very strong Institution including a fair Judiciary system, Monetary Institute(RBI, SBI), Educational Institutes (IIT,IIM,AIIMS) or research institutes(ISRO). Benefits of these institutes can be felt even in silicon valley. Also because of the achievement of students from these institutes abroad, India could create a strong software and service industry 6) Forming the base of strong economy: Because of all the above points (and many other) currently India is considered as the fastest growing major economy. Its current economic situation is somehow similar to China in 2001. As we embraced market economy 15 years after china I think it is in a comparable situation. Next 20 years of growth of above 6% can do wonders to infrastructure as we have seen in China. People always compare India with China and come to the conclusion that it is a failed state. But in my opinion apart from China and South Korea ( I am excluding city states) India have done fairly well after independence in comparison to other colonial countries, and is poised to progress in much faster pace. My only regret is that we should have embraced market economy 20 years before. But still saying Indian government has completely failed in not entirely correct
djfitlfltrjd 11y ago
This comment perfectly illustrates the complete and utter ignorance some people over the developing world. It's shameful, you visited India but you learned nearly nothing from the trip. "One step from the taliban" - seriously where have you traveled ? Have you been to Saudi Arabia ? Do you think India is a country that does state sponsored killings adultry. I have 5 female cousins in India who vote, work as engineers and doctors, and chose their husbands. Do you think that was even possible in Afghanistan ? "Dog eat dog" - a functioning 1 billion person democracy is a dog eat dog world? "Better under British rule" - do you have any idea what the impact of British rule did to India ? My grandfathers shed blood, sweat, and tears to fight british imperialist which raped and ravaged our country. Do know about the 10s of millions killed in famines directly linked to British rule? Do you realize the British literally starved to death many of my ancestors ? Do you know anything about partitions history? Do know that after sucking the resources of India for over 100 years divied up the subcontinent in two weeks without consulting the natives and mismanaged the process so badly that 10s of millions died during partition. Go google the British chancellor in charge partition to understand how disgraceful rule contributed to millions stranded and dead during independence. "Raping women every day" have you been to South Africa? Indias rape rate is not even in the bottom quartile of rape rates in the world. again it's a huge social issue but to say that it's specific to India is profoundly ignorant. I'm not disaknowledging the breadth of issues that our 1 billion person country faces, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Go spend a little bit time outside your bubble so you can understand that all the social issues you mention exist across our globe. have you ever visited a developing country before ?
hir95 11y ago
You motherfucker , just because you visited my country does not give you right to say anything about it. You seem like white guy who got Indian bitch. Indian girls in US/UK are bitches who are after white dudes for citizenship and constantly complain about Indian males. If your wife is Indian and you are White, your wife is race traitor. Its easy to judge someone after living in developed country, far less to live and survive that life. Just fucking re-read what you wrote. Your country ( US/UK) has rape rate multi-fold than India. Granted, India is filthy when it comes to sanitation and cities in general but to say country is like that is pure non-sense. Also, far far less people are raped in India. I will tell you why. Once a criminal rapes women or anyone, chances of him living again are very low. Either people or police or someone else will likely to kill him. There are multiple programs by Federal, State, Local govt. Not everyone is corrupt. Thousands of places offer free food in temples and other religious institutes. Rice is 2 rupees/kg in many states. What you saw does not depict correct picture of India. May be you hold grudge against Indians because you got replaced by some H1B. FUCK YOU. Mod - can we take down anti-national and violence inciting comment above ? Also, fuck these YC companies demeaning my country. Look at your country and your homeless people first. Clean SF and NY first. Clean your country of drugs before looking at others.
dang 11y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11362332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11362332 and marked it off-topic.
srikz 11y ago
I feel the 'one step away from Taliban' is taking it too far especially when you probably (I'm assuming here) haven't had any exposure to it other than what we see in the news. It should also be noted that a lot of the problems in India currently are due to the British rule. Many of the issues seen in India are similar to the issues faced in England during Victorian times probably because of the education and societal values they brought to India. Now, the country is doing what it can (of course it can be better) with the limited resources and excess population.
srean 11y ago
I upvoted inspite of the exaggeration. I think it was unintentional. You are just generalizing and extrapolating too much from Delhi visit. That India under British rule was better is an offensive claim, but let me comment on the parts where there is some truth in what you say. Being an Indian I confirm with sadness that Indian males from many states (more so up north, and more so the type that regurgitates 'all women are to be worshipped, they are like ma bahin (mother and sister)') consider women easy meat as long as no one's looking, sometimes even when they are. In many of these states there are very few platforms for male and female population to share healthy and easy proximity. Heck, the political party that the current prime minister hails from has a long politically profitable history of beating up couples (sometimes on television) for doing just that. You may have also noticed that incidents of rape often happen across social strata, more specifically most of the rapes (well those that make it into news) are rape up. A part of the problem is that parts of India are very feudal and deeply hierarchical (Pakistan much more so). One strata shits on those below with entitlement. Pick some from the 'lower' strata, they would have never experienced common courtesy or consideration from strata above, not just the current generation but for generations past. Courtesy, respect and considerations would be alien to them. It should not surprise anyone that cross strata empathy is almost non-existent. Now look at who is building the infrastructure to be used by the upper strata, its those who are relatively at the bottom. Do you think they will give much heart into their work ? Its not like they will get to use that infrastructure much or have since generations, just shat on.
vkat 11y ago
I agree there is a lot of homelessness, but strongly disagree that the society hates women. I grew up in India and I will say there is a lot of respect for women in India. The uneducated/unemployed people are always there in every country, you will see a higher percentage in India and what you describe is mostly their doings.

by X86BSD 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

dominotw 11y ago

I am Indian. I agree with everything you said, fairly accurate analysis of the situation.

hir95 11y ago
Bullshit. Have some respect for your country, motherfucker.

vr3690 11y ago

So you judged a whole country after visiting a single city? >one step away from Taliban Really? I mean, really? I would expect this kind of bullshit in maybe r/worldnews but not in HN.

dominotw 11y ago
He might have exaggerated a bit but overall conclusions are still right on point. I've lived all over india (due to the fact that my father was in Indian army) and what gp said is true everywhere in India. We have to admit what is wrong with our country. Feeling shameful, defensive, angry, proud, hurt ect is not going to help anyone and infact is counter productive.
- sremani 11y ago
  I am never an apologist for the Indian State, but to say, India would be better under British rule, is a NO - NO for me. In spite of its failures at many levels and mostly falling short of expectations, India is a miracle. There is no other way to put it. The population of entire Americas, north-south and central is lesser than population of India. So, if you are seeing grotesque poverty and violence, well they are still there in Americas. Xenophobia is really not a phobia if you read the history of Delhi. I mean this city has been sacked since 10th century and regularly had its population obliterated.

neel8986 11y ago

I agree with some of the points you made. But saying that indian government has completely failed and it was better under British rule is not completely correct. Some of the achievement of independent India are 1) Fully functional democracy: India is perhaps the only country which is able to avoid a strong dictator among all its colonized peer. We provided universal suffrage from day one. Indian democracy is not perfect but we regularly topple corrupt or inefficient government without bloodshed or civil war. Considering the diversity in culture and not so educated population this is a great achievement 2) Creating a country out of diversity: During Indian independence Churchill said India will soon be broken down into pieces. Many others believed the same as difference between different part of India is far greater than europe. Still we survived any major secession effort and currently very few Indian want to be a independent nation. We have 14 major languages. Two of our south asian neighbours went to civil war just because of two major language could not coexist. We have the 2nd largest population of muslim living peacefully with about a billion Hindu population without going through radicalization. In retrospect this unity in diversity will be biggest achievement of Independent India 3) Food self sufficiency: Through out British rule famine was a part and parcel of our life. Just in Bengal famine in 1943 about 3-4 million people were killed. If you consider the magnitude it can only be compared to holocaust. Even in 1950s and 60s we had literally beg USA or USSR for food grains. Currently we are completely self sufficient in terms of food which is a big achievement considering the need for feeding more than a billion mouth 5) Strong Institutions: Independent India has created very strong Institution including a fair Judiciary system, Monetary Institute(RBI, SBI), Educational Institutes (IIT,IIM,AIIMS) or research institutes(ISRO). Benefits of these institutes can be felt even in silicon valley. Also because of the achievement of students from these institutes abroad, India could create a strong software and service industry 6) Forming the base of strong economy: Because of all the above points (and many other) currently India is considered as the fastest growing major economy. Its current economic situation is somehow similar to China in 2001. As we embraced market economy 15 years after china I think it is in a comparable situation. Next 20 years of growth of above 6% can do wonders to infrastructure as we have seen in China. People always compare India with China and come to the conclusion that it is a failed state. But in my opinion apart from China and South Korea ( I am excluding city states) India have done fairly well after independence in comparison to other colonial countries, and is poised to progress in much faster pace. My only regret is that we should have embraced market economy 20 years before. But still saying Indian government has completely failed in not entirely correct

djfitlfltrjd 11y ago

This comment perfectly illustrates the complete and utter ignorance some people over the developing world. It's shameful, you visited India but you learned nearly nothing from the trip. "One step from the taliban" - seriously where have you traveled ? Have you been to Saudi Arabia ? Do you think India is a country that does state sponsored killings adultry. I have 5 female cousins in India who vote, work as engineers and doctors, and chose their husbands. Do you think that was even possible in Afghanistan ? "Dog eat dog" - a functioning 1 billion person democracy is a dog eat dog world? "Better under British rule" - do you have any idea what the impact of British rule did to India ? My grandfathers shed blood, sweat, and tears to fight british imperialist which raped and ravaged our country. Do know about the 10s of millions killed in famines directly linked to British rule? Do you realize the British literally starved to death many of my ancestors ? Do you know anything about partitions history? Do know that after sucking the resources of India for over 100 years divied up the subcontinent in two weeks without consulting the natives and mismanaged the process so badly that 10s of millions died during partition. Go google the British chancellor in charge partition to understand how disgraceful rule contributed to millions stranded and dead during independence. "Raping women every day" have you been to South Africa? Indias rape rate is not even in the bottom quartile of rape rates in the world. again it's a huge social issue but to say that it's specific to India is profoundly ignorant. I'm not disaknowledging the breadth of issues that our 1 billion person country faces, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Go spend a little bit time outside your bubble so you can understand that all the social issues you mention exist across our globe. have you ever visited a developing country before ?

hir95 11y ago

You motherfucker , just because you visited my country does not give you right to say anything about it. You seem like white guy who got Indian bitch. Indian girls in US/UK are bitches who are after white dudes for citizenship and constantly complain about Indian males. If your wife is Indian and you are White, your wife is race traitor. Its easy to judge someone after living in developed country, far less to live and survive that life. Just fucking re-read what you wrote. Your country ( US/UK) has rape rate multi-fold than India. Granted, India is filthy when it comes to sanitation and cities in general but to say country is like that is pure non-sense. Also, far far less people are raped in India. I will tell you why. Once a criminal rapes women or anyone, chances of him living again are very low. Either people or police or someone else will likely to kill him. There are multiple programs by Federal, State, Local govt. Not everyone is corrupt. Thousands of places offer free food in temples and other religious institutes. Rice is 2 rupees/kg in many states. What you saw does not depict correct picture of India. May be you hold grudge against Indians because you got replaced by some H1B. FUCK YOU. Mod - can we take down anti-national and violence inciting comment above ? Also, fuck these YC companies demeaning my country. Look at your country and your homeless people first. Clean SF and NY first. Clean your country of drugs before looking at others.

dang 11y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11362332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11362332 and marked it off-topic.

srikz 11y ago

I feel the 'one step away from Taliban' is taking it too far especially when you probably (I'm assuming here) haven't had any exposure to it other than what we see in the news. It should also be noted that a lot of the problems in India currently are due to the British rule. Many of the issues seen in India are similar to the issues faced in England during Victorian times probably because of the education and societal values they brought to India. Now, the country is doing what it can (of course it can be better) with the limited resources and excess population.

srean 11y ago

I upvoted inspite of the exaggeration. I think it was unintentional. You are just generalizing and extrapolating too much from Delhi visit. That India under British rule was better is an offensive claim, but let me comment on the parts where there is some truth in what you say. Being an Indian I confirm with sadness that Indian males from many states (more so up north, and more so the type that regurgitates 'all women are to be worshipped, they are like ma bahin (mother and sister)') consider women easy meat as long as no one's looking, sometimes even when they are. In many of these states there are very few platforms for male and female population to share healthy and easy proximity. Heck, the political party that the current prime minister hails from has a long politically profitable history of beating up couples (sometimes on television) for doing just that. You may have also noticed that incidents of rape often happen across social strata, more specifically most of the rapes (well those that make it into news) are rape up. A part of the problem is that parts of India are very feudal and deeply hierarchical (Pakistan much more so). One strata shits on those below with entitlement. Pick some from the 'lower' strata, they would have never experienced common courtesy or consideration from strata above, not just the current generation but for generations past. Courtesy, respect and considerations would be alien to them. It should not surprise anyone that cross strata empathy is almost non-existent. Now look at who is building the infrastructure to be used by the upper strata, its those who are relatively at the bottom. Do you think they will give much heart into their work ? Its not like they will get to use that infrastructure much or have since generations, just shat on.

vkat 11y ago

I agree there is a lot of homelessness, but strongly disagree that the society hates women. I grew up in India and I will say there is a lot of respect for women in India. The uneducated/unemployed people are always there in every country, you will see a higher percentage in India and what you describe is mostly their doings.