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Thanks--this was a very clear explanation. I'm familiar with the concept of kikokushijo from some Japanese friends in college--there really are some ways of th

Thanks--this was a very clear explanation. I'm familiar with the concept of kikokushijo from some Japanese friends in college--there really are some ways of thinking that are completely foreign culturally and your example is a great way of highlighting that. I've read that Japan's younger generations are starting to break free from the mold of "lifetime employment" and similar concepts as corporations have begun to show less and less loyalty to their employees as they become more competitive globally, and as Japan becomes more Westernized. Have you seen signs of that? Are the days of the traditional salaryman numbered? The whole concept of the salaryman has always been fascinating to me. On the one hand, you have Japan, which is probably up there with Germany when one looks up the definition of "efficiency" in the dictionary. On the other, you have this concept of people working insane hours which have been proven to be less productive than when people actually get solid rest, have good work/life balance, etc. in terms of actual output, reduction in errors, and things that generally align with the concept of kaizen. I have this notion in my head that Japanese corporate culture is extremely inefficient, with people essentially just creating endless bureaucracy and shuffling paper back and forth. Can you comment on any of these things?

patio11 11y ago
Yes, things are changing (slowly). My accountant left a salaryman gig (!) at 25 (!!) to open his own business (!!!) in accounting (!!!!) which successfully convinced Japanese businesses to use a 25 year old washout as their accountant (!!!!!). I happen to know a ~60ish year old Japanese software entrepreneur. This entrepreneur recently raised a venture round (!) from a US VC (!!!). She's a woman with approximately ~40 years of experience operating a software company. (This is so outside the norm that exclamation points do not do it justice. If instead of meeting her I had heard about her second-hand from the Pope, I would have called him a liar.) My view on Japanese corporate efficiency is essentially that Japan had a few things going right for it, including a de-facto world monopoly on applied mathematics ("which is useful"), which lasted for a few decades. Those were very, very good decades, and no amount of other inefficiency in Japanese companies/government/etc could make a monopoly on math lose. ("Monopoly" is a slight exaggeration for effect.) Japan no longer has a monopoly on math. It took ~30 years, but Ford and GM spent enough time looking at Toyota such that they can make a car which is, if not a Toyota, at least not a death trap. Korea and China skipped directly from dirt-poor nations to industrial-powerhouses-who-can-math without taking the US' 200 year detour through "Let's try running factories like they are public schools and public schools like they are factories." Meanwhile, the US becomes the global center for software (which works out swimmingly) and Japan becomes the global center for robots (which works out swimmingly if one owns robots but not so much if one competes with them) while cranking up industrial output and industrial efficiency but concentrating the gains of it rather than passing them around many folks as previously happened.
- knughit 11y ago
  Are Korean and Chinese not like factories? I always thought they were more so than American, to the point of famously turning out people who have a bizarre ability to imitate knowledge but not have it (much like Chinese factories can fill dollar stores and Walmart with stuff that has an amazing superficial resemblance to functionng functioning products)
  - antoniuschan99 11y ago
    I think its about teaching rote memory vs creativity. It seems as though Math and rote memory are the things that attribute to the success of large scale operations. Whereas Creativity (thinking outside the box and connecting the dots of seemingly different things) is what attributes to the success of new ventures. It's North American culture to be able to think outside the box (regardless of how bad the public school systems are here) which is why most of the innovation comes from here. It is also why the factories are mostly in Asia, because the process of streamlining production has a lot to do with getting the math right.
- mwcampbell 11y ago
  What do you mean by running factories like public schools and public schools like factories?
  - sethev 11y ago
    Treating workers like children and treating children like workers -- that's how I read it.
- mailshanx 11y ago
  World monopoly on math? Could you elaborate on that?
  - barry-cotter 11y ago
    Statistical quality control. Edward W. Deming or a name very like that. The US and Britain made vast strides in quality engineering during WW2 and then ignored it. The Japanese got religious about it.

patio11 11y ago

Yes, things are changing (slowly). My accountant left a salaryman gig (!) at 25 (!!) to open his own business (!!!) in accounting (!!!!) which successfully convinced Japanese businesses to use a 25 year old washout as their accountant (!!!!!). I happen to know a ~60ish year old Japanese software entrepreneur. This entrepreneur recently raised a venture round (!) from a US VC (!!!). She's a woman with approximately ~40 years of experience operating a software company. (This is so outside the norm that exclamation points do not do it justice. If instead of meeting her I had heard about her second-hand from the Pope, I would have called him a liar.) My view on Japanese corporate efficiency is essentially that Japan had a few things going right for it, including a de-facto world monopoly on applied mathematics ("which is useful"), which lasted for a few decades. Those were very, very good decades, and no amount of other inefficiency in Japanese companies/government/etc could make a monopoly on math lose. ("Monopoly" is a slight exaggeration for effect.) Japan no longer has a monopoly on math. It took ~30 years, but Ford and GM spent enough time looking at Toyota such that they can make a car which is, if not a Toyota, at least not a death trap. Korea and China skipped directly from dirt-poor nations to industrial-powerhouses-who-can-math without taking the US' 200 year detour through "Let's try running factories like they are public schools and public schools like they are factories." Meanwhile, the US becomes the global center for software (which works out swimmingly) and Japan becomes the global center for robots (which works out swimmingly if one owns robots but not so much if one competes with them) while cranking up industrial output and industrial efficiency but concentrating the gains of it rather than passing them around many folks as previously happened.

knughit 11y ago
Are Korean and Chinese not like factories? I always thought they were more so than American, to the point of famously turning out people who have a bizarre ability to imitate knowledge but not have it (much like Chinese factories can fill dollar stores and Walmart with stuff that has an amazing superficial resemblance to functionng functioning products)
- antoniuschan99 11y ago
  I think its about teaching rote memory vs creativity. It seems as though Math and rote memory are the things that attribute to the success of large scale operations. Whereas Creativity (thinking outside the box and connecting the dots of seemingly different things) is what attributes to the success of new ventures. It's North American culture to be able to think outside the box (regardless of how bad the public school systems are here) which is why most of the innovation comes from here. It is also why the factories are mostly in Asia, because the process of streamlining production has a lot to do with getting the math right.
mwcampbell 11y ago
What do you mean by running factories like public schools and public schools like factories?
- sethev 11y ago
  Treating workers like children and treating children like workers -- that's how I read it.
mailshanx 11y ago
World monopoly on math? Could you elaborate on that?
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  Statistical quality control. Edward W. Deming or a name very like that. The US and Britain made vast strides in quality engineering during WW2 and then ignored it. The Japanese got religious about it.