9 ms·

Typelevel boycotts LambdaConf over politics

23 points by dudul 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
swang 11y ago
Thread poster personally does not like Typelevel. Thread poster editorializes title accusing typelevel of politics. Thus the circle continues.
- tragic 11y ago
  Yes. I disagree with their decision, but it would be good if a passing mod could make the title less inflammatory.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- mindslight 11y ago
  Welcome to the Catch-22 of the-political-is-personal! Excusing Yarvin's thoughtcrime as mere "politics" is indeed inflammatory, if you think everyone needs to share the same religion. If you accept that reasonable people can disagree politically, then the title ("Typelevel boycotts LambdaConf over politics") succinctly describes the situation.
  - Jtsummers 11y ago
    But it isn't the title of the linked article. It's been editorialized which is counter to the guidelines of this site. Poster should have made an initial comment along with the post (with its original title) explaining their position rather than pushing it into the title.
    - mindslight 11y ago
      Sure - when everything is relative, the only remaining judgment is to not get involved. So we replace what could be a summary about what something means to our community, with mechanistic duplication of the OP title. I do understand it keeps the noise down by raising the barrier to editorialization (make your own new post), and perhaps that's uniformly for the better. I just think that characterizing that particular summary as "accusing" is more divisive than the summary itself.
      - Jtsummers 11y ago
        It simply says, "over politics". It doesn't even say what politics. Depending on the reading it suggests somewhere between pettiness or conviction. The only editorializing that makes some sense is to include that it's related to LambdaConf (provides context for those aware of the issues facing LambdaConf's organizers, but doesn't alter the substance of the title). And this has nothing to do with relativity. Titles can be as non-neutral as possible and be appropriate. They should not be altered by submitters in a way that adds or changes a message not present in the original.
        mindslight 11y ago
        > Depending on the reading it suggests somewhere between pettiness or conviction Exactly, that whole range is still outside some technical issue related to the purpose of the conference. The tech community was started by weirdos with odd views who didn't belong, and is now being warped by the same monkey power structure we grew up eschewing. > Titles can be as non-neutral as possible and be appropriate. They should not be altered by submitters in a way that ... Because one of the million monkeys is likely to complain, and conjure up an army of a thousand more. Hence every judgment becomes relative, so we have to fall back to mechanistic rules.
- dudul 11y ago
  I actually like Typelevel projects and use a lot of them everyday. Contrary to them, I don't have any problem making a difference between technologies and political views.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
13thLetter 11y ago
A group that's policing who can use their services based on political disagreements is definitely not a group that it's safe to do business with. Who knows what they'll take offense at next?
- jasonwatkinspdx 11y ago
  Right, condemning a vocal advocate of white supremacy and racial slavery is a slippery slope to WHO KNOWS WHAT DANGERS.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    If Yarvin's views are as few, shallow, and unnuanced as you've characterized them as, then surely they can be easier refuted through reasoned argument instead of monkeysphere games. (And just for the record, I disagree with the utility of Yarvin's technical architecture for the same philosophical reasons I disagree with Moldbug's political prescriptions. But I find his perspective refreshing and analysis spot-on. And I find social ostracization based on traditionally-unassociated context extremely repugnant)
  - Mizza 11y ago
    Where's the coming from? The only thing I've seen as evidence of that is http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/understanding-racial-idealism.html http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/underst... - but I don't read that as an advocacy of white supremacy, it's just saying that Nazis were "utopianist" (as in _they_ believed in a utopian ideology), and it's actually as an analogy to characterize modern liberals. "Vocal advocate of white supremacy and racial slavery" seems like a bit of a slander, but maybe I'm missing part of the equation.
    - theorique 11y ago
      "maybe I'm missing part of the equation" You're not. The main issue is that Moldbug writes in depth about controversial things, without including enough Leftist bromides like "Hitler was the worst" or "slavery is evil". This is very triggering to Leftists in the tech industry and so they want him removed from any conference where he happens to be presenting a talk.
analognoise 11y ago
"We're going to take our ball and go home; we don't want to play with you!" What a bunch of children. They don't agree with a person's personal views, which are totally tangental to the subject of the conference, so they pick up their ball and go home? Since when did everyone become such cowarda towards people with different ideas? Why not show up with a diverse group of kick ass programmers, and show him he's not so great? No, we'll run and cry, and make blog posts about it. Stay strong. /s
- lemmsjid 11y ago
  While I am not one to shy away from a political argument, it's pretty easy to put myself into TypeLevel's shoes. As they say in their blog post, due to the notoriety of the speaker it's almost inevitable that an event about programming would become an event about political argument. If they aren't in the mood to preside over such an event, it's reasonable not to have it at all. They are not obligated to be in the business of public debate, and the results of such debates could easily harm their reputation. It's important in life to pick your battles. Having read about the speaker in question, it's pretty much impossible that TypeLevel employees would be able to magically argue him out of his existing position, and it's probably equally inevitable that he would be unable to argue them into his position. None of the above seems childish to me. Most people I know, with few exceptions, make such decisions all of the time. Are you going to have a good Thanksgiving, or are you going to get into it with your reactionary relative for the thousandth time?
  - analognoise 11y ago
    You still invite that reactionary relative because that's what the event is about - family. In this case it's about programming. Being so gun-shy about different (unrelated) opinions people would cancel events isn't absurd? Any gathering over 10 people is likely to have at least one asshole in the bunch. I get the feeling actual programmers aren't pushing this PC crap, but hangers-on who want to dictate everyone else's thoughts - and they're scoring victories, which seems even crazier to me.
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
nbb 11y ago
When you boycott something at the type level, it's a compiler error to buy something from that firm.
torkable 11y ago
People from Boulder can't handle other people's ideas, shocking.
taylodl 11y ago
I've attended several conferences and not once have I ever checked into the political advocacy of any of my session's presenters. Nor have any of my presenters ever brought up politics. I go to conferences to discuss programming, frameworks, architectures and technologies. In so doing I don't care what your political views may be, what your religious views may be, what your sexual preferences may be - I don't care about any of it. I simply enjoy connecting with other people as passionate about programming as me.

23 points by dudul 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

swang 11y ago

Thread poster personally does not like Typelevel. Thread poster editorializes title accusing typelevel of politics. Thus the circle continues.

tragic 11y ago
Yes. I disagree with their decision, but it would be good if a passing mod could make the title less inflammatory.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
mindslight 11y ago
Welcome to the Catch-22 of the-political-is-personal! Excusing Yarvin's thoughtcrime as mere "politics" is indeed inflammatory, if you think everyone needs to share the same religion. If you accept that reasonable people can disagree politically, then the title ("Typelevel boycotts LambdaConf over politics") succinctly describes the situation.
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  But it isn't the title of the linked article. It's been editorialized which is counter to the guidelines of this site. Poster should have made an initial comment along with the post (with its original title) explaining their position rather than pushing it into the title.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    Sure - when everything is relative, the only remaining judgment is to not get involved. So we replace what could be a summary about what something means to our community, with mechanistic duplication of the OP title. I do understand it keeps the noise down by raising the barrier to editorialization (make your own new post), and perhaps that's uniformly for the better. I just think that characterizing that particular summary as "accusing" is more divisive than the summary itself.
    - Jtsummers 11y ago
      It simply says, "over politics". It doesn't even say what politics. Depending on the reading it suggests somewhere between pettiness or conviction. The only editorializing that makes some sense is to include that it's related to LambdaConf (provides context for those aware of the issues facing LambdaConf's organizers, but doesn't alter the substance of the title). And this has nothing to do with relativity. Titles can be as non-neutral as possible and be appropriate. They should not be altered by submitters in a way that adds or changes a message not present in the original.
      - mindslight 11y ago
        > Depending on the reading it suggests somewhere between pettiness or conviction Exactly, that whole range is still outside some technical issue related to the purpose of the conference. The tech community was started by weirdos with odd views who didn't belong, and is now being warped by the same monkey power structure we grew up eschewing. > Titles can be as non-neutral as possible and be appropriate. They should not be altered by submitters in a way that ... Because one of the million monkeys is likely to complain, and conjure up an army of a thousand more. Hence every judgment becomes relative, so we have to fall back to mechanistic rules.
dudul 11y ago
I actually like Typelevel projects and use a lot of them everyday. Contrary to them, I don't have any problem making a difference between technologies and political views.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

13thLetter 11y ago

A group that's policing who can use their services based on political disagreements is definitely not a group that it's safe to do business with. Who knows what they'll take offense at next?

jasonwatkinspdx 11y ago
Right, condemning a vocal advocate of white supremacy and racial slavery is a slippery slope to WHO KNOWS WHAT DANGERS.
- mindslight 11y ago
  If Yarvin's views are as few, shallow, and unnuanced as you've characterized them as, then surely they can be easier refuted through reasoned argument instead of monkeysphere games. (And just for the record, I disagree with the utility of Yarvin's technical architecture for the same philosophical reasons I disagree with Moldbug's political prescriptions. But I find his perspective refreshing and analysis spot-on. And I find social ostracization based on traditionally-unassociated context extremely repugnant)
- Mizza 11y ago
  Where's the coming from? The only thing I've seen as evidence of that is http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/understanding-racial-idealism.html http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/underst... - but I don't read that as an advocacy of white supremacy, it's just saying that Nazis were "utopianist" (as in _they_ believed in a utopian ideology), and it's actually as an analogy to characterize modern liberals. "Vocal advocate of white supremacy and racial slavery" seems like a bit of a slander, but maybe I'm missing part of the equation.
  - theorique 11y ago
    "maybe I'm missing part of the equation" You're not. The main issue is that Moldbug writes in depth about controversial things, without including enough Leftist bromides like "Hitler was the worst" or "slavery is evil". This is very triggering to Leftists in the tech industry and so they want him removed from any conference where he happens to be presenting a talk.

analognoise 11y ago

"We're going to take our ball and go home; we don't want to play with you!" What a bunch of children. They don't agree with a person's personal views, which are totally tangental to the subject of the conference, so they pick up their ball and go home? Since when did everyone become such cowarda towards people with different ideas? Why not show up with a diverse group of kick ass programmers, and show him he's not so great? No, we'll run and cry, and make blog posts about it. Stay strong. /s

lemmsjid 11y ago
While I am not one to shy away from a political argument, it's pretty easy to put myself into TypeLevel's shoes. As they say in their blog post, due to the notoriety of the speaker it's almost inevitable that an event about programming would become an event about political argument. If they aren't in the mood to preside over such an event, it's reasonable not to have it at all. They are not obligated to be in the business of public debate, and the results of such debates could easily harm their reputation. It's important in life to pick your battles. Having read about the speaker in question, it's pretty much impossible that TypeLevel employees would be able to magically argue him out of his existing position, and it's probably equally inevitable that he would be unable to argue them into his position. None of the above seems childish to me. Most people I know, with few exceptions, make such decisions all of the time. Are you going to have a good Thanksgiving, or are you going to get into it with your reactionary relative for the thousandth time?
- analognoise 11y ago
  You still invite that reactionary relative because that's what the event is about - family. In this case it's about programming. Being so gun-shy about different (unrelated) opinions people would cancel events isn't absurd? Any gathering over 10 people is likely to have at least one asshole in the bunch. I get the feeling actual programmers aren't pushing this PC crap, but hangers-on who want to dictate everyone else's thoughts - and they're scoring victories, which seems even crazier to me.
- 13thLetter 11y ago

nbb 11y ago

When you boycott something at the type level, it's a compiler error to buy something from that firm.

torkable 11y ago

People from Boulder can't handle other people's ideas, shocking.

taylodl 11y ago

I've attended several conferences and not once have I ever checked into the political advocacy of any of my session's presenters. Nor have any of my presenters ever brought up politics. I go to conferences to discuss programming, frameworks, architectures and technologies. In so doing I don't care what your political views may be, what your religious views may be, what your sexual preferences may be - I don't care about any of it. I simply enjoy connecting with other people as passionate about programming as me.