4 ms·

10^4 is not 1000

by dickwads 11y ago

10^4 is not 1000

riobard 11y ago
He is correct in quoting the 1000 number because each cloned phone gets you 10 tries, thus 10 x 1000 = 10^4.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  You're still trying 10,000 times, you're just using parallelism to speed it up.
  - jnbiche 11y ago
    Would the downvoters care to explain how I'm wrong? Maybe I am, but if so, I'd like to know how. Edit: Oh, maybe because "speeding it up" is not the primary reason for the parallelism. OK, fair enough. The parallelism is to subvert the 10 attempt limitation. Point is, you're still trying 10,000 times. Or am I missing something?
    - frankzinger 11y ago
      It's 1,000 because you need to try 10,000 PINs, 10 per "fresh" NAND chip. So the article was referring to doing the NAND "reset" 10,000/10=1,000 times, not the total number of possible 4-digit numbers. And it's a real shame that comments like yours get downvoted because it's not as if you were trolling or being an asshole.
    - biot 11y ago
      The relevant part of the article is: > After every 10 failed attempts, the chips need to be > removed the phone, reflashed, and reinserted back into > the phone. Then the phone needs to be rebooted. > For a 4-digit passcode, this process will need to be > repeated a thousand times. The article isn't saying you'll need to guess 1000 times, it's saying "this process" needs to be repeated 1000 times. What is "this process"? It's making 10 guesses, reflash, reboot. Thus the original point starting this thread that "10^4 is not 1000" is based on a misunderstanding since it's making 10 guesses that you repeat 1000 times. On top of that, it's not parallelism either since you need the specific CPU from the phone (and maybe the LTE baseband chip) to perform each attempt, which cannot be done in parallel. This is 10,000 attempts, one-by-one, with a reflash and reboot every 10 attempts.
      - jnbiche 11y ago
        > On top of that, it's not parallelism either since you need the specific CPU from the phone (and maybe the LTE baseband chip) to perform each attempt, which cannot be done in parallel. This is 10,000 attempts, one-by-one, with a reflash and reboot every 10 attempts. Thank you. This was the part I didn't fully appreciate, and should have gone back and re-read the story.

10^4 is not 1000

riobard 11y ago

He is correct in quoting the 1000 number because each cloned phone gets you 10 tries, thus 10 x 1000 = 10^4.

jnbiche 11y ago
You're still trying 10,000 times, you're just using parallelism to speed it up.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  Would the downvoters care to explain how I'm wrong? Maybe I am, but if so, I'd like to know how. Edit: Oh, maybe because "speeding it up" is not the primary reason for the parallelism. OK, fair enough. The parallelism is to subvert the 10 attempt limitation. Point is, you're still trying 10,000 times. Or am I missing something?
  - frankzinger 11y ago
    It's 1,000 because you need to try 10,000 PINs, 10 per "fresh" NAND chip. So the article was referring to doing the NAND "reset" 10,000/10=1,000 times, not the total number of possible 4-digit numbers. And it's a real shame that comments like yours get downvoted because it's not as if you were trolling or being an asshole.
  - biot 11y ago
    The relevant part of the article is: > After every 10 failed attempts, the chips need to be > removed the phone, reflashed, and reinserted back into > the phone. Then the phone needs to be rebooted. > For a 4-digit passcode, this process will need to be > repeated a thousand times. The article isn't saying you'll need to guess 1000 times, it's saying "this process" needs to be repeated 1000 times. What is "this process"? It's making 10 guesses, reflash, reboot. Thus the original point starting this thread that "10^4 is not 1000" is based on a misunderstanding since it's making 10 guesses that you repeat 1000 times. On top of that, it's not parallelism either since you need the specific CPU from the phone (and maybe the LTE baseband chip) to perform each attempt, which cannot be done in parallel. This is 10,000 attempts, one-by-one, with a reflash and reboot every 10 attempts.
    - jnbiche 11y ago
      > On top of that, it's not parallelism either since you need the specific CPU from the phone (and maybe the LTE baseband chip) to perform each attempt, which cannot be done in parallel. This is 10,000 attempts, one-by-one, with a reflash and reboot every 10 attempts. Thank you. This was the part I didn't fully appreciate, and should have gone back and re-read the story.