4 ms·

>Finally, I am very skeptical of their claim about walking away from subscriptions and trials. Sure, in theory, you make it much harder for vendors to track you

>Finally, I am very skeptical of their claim about walking away from subscriptions and trials. Sure, in theory, you make it much harder for vendors to track you down, but by law, you're agreeing to pay for the company's services when you accept their agreement. I am not sure about this. One could argue that you by signing up for the recurrent payment (or the free trial with automatic payed renewal), you merely consented for the company to automatically sell you another months subscription. If they are unable to do so, then they have every right to cancel your subscription, but it is not obvious that they have any right to require you to buy it. This becomes even more clear when you relize that, even if you used your real card, you would still be able to cancel before they charge you, and they would have no recourse.

michael_storm 11y ago
What? You didn't "merely consent" to anything; you agreed to their terms and conditions, which state cancellation criteria. There's no "one could argue" here. Commercial law is well-established. Of course they have recourse: taking you to collections. Have you... have you ever not paid a bill before? I'm very confused how one could think this.
- gizmo686 11y ago
  If we are talking about something like a phone bill, where you may incur charges during billing period and pay at the end, then you are correct and the company can take you to court because you are in debt to them for services provided that you have not paid for. If we are talking about subscriptions where you pay for a month of service up front, then there is no debt. If they fail in charging another month to the provided credit card, then they are under no obligation to renew your subscription. Assuming they do not, then you have not recieved any service that you did not pay for. Their only claim is that you promised to by another month; however this claim is weak because you could have properly canceled your subscription before buying the next month anyway (and, in most cases, you would still get access until the period you had paid for anyway).
  - michael_storm 11y ago
    Again, if you have agreed to their terms and conditions, then you are under obligation to abide by them (within reason; there are limits on what can go into a T&C). The T&C almost certainly obliges you to pay them. Can anyone cite precedent for failure to pay magically releasing someone from that agreement?
    - stouset 11y ago
      Gizmo is cleary referring to services where you pay upfront for, e.g., one month of service with some form of auto-renewal. He's not talking about failing to pay for services rendered in advance of payment.
  - patio11 11y ago
    FYI: contracts can specify a lot of different payment terms. The term that you apparently desire to be in contracts you sign is against the interests of your counterparty. Most of them will have asked a lawyer how to write their contract. Their lawyers will often draft that contract to protect their client's interests. You will find that lawyers are rather good at doing this and are about as likely to be out-thought by a programmer's parsing of the English language as you are to be out-Fizzbuzzed by a randomly chosen attorney.

michael_storm 11y ago

What? You didn't "merely consent" to anything; you agreed to their terms and conditions, which state cancellation criteria. There's no "one could argue" here. Commercial law is well-established. Of course they have recourse: taking you to collections. Have you... have you ever not paid a bill before? I'm very confused how one could think this.

gizmo686 11y ago
If we are talking about something like a phone bill, where you may incur charges during billing period and pay at the end, then you are correct and the company can take you to court because you are in debt to them for services provided that you have not paid for. If we are talking about subscriptions where you pay for a month of service up front, then there is no debt. If they fail in charging another month to the provided credit card, then they are under no obligation to renew your subscription. Assuming they do not, then you have not recieved any service that you did not pay for. Their only claim is that you promised to by another month; however this claim is weak because you could have properly canceled your subscription before buying the next month anyway (and, in most cases, you would still get access until the period you had paid for anyway).
- michael_storm 11y ago
  Again, if you have agreed to their terms and conditions, then you are under obligation to abide by them (within reason; there are limits on what can go into a T&C). The T&C almost certainly obliges you to pay them. Can anyone cite precedent for failure to pay magically releasing someone from that agreement?
  - stouset 11y ago
    Gizmo is cleary referring to services where you pay upfront for, e.g., one month of service with some form of auto-renewal. He's not talking about failing to pay for services rendered in advance of payment.
- patio11 11y ago
  FYI: contracts can specify a lot of different payment terms. The term that you apparently desire to be in contracts you sign is against the interests of your counterparty. Most of them will have asked a lawyer how to write their contract. Their lawyers will often draft that contract to protect their client's interests. You will find that lawyers are rather good at doing this and are about as likely to be out-thought by a programmer's parsing of the English language as you are to be out-Fizzbuzzed by a randomly chosen attorney.