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The logical conclusion of following orders like this is for China to demand every trace of Tiananmen Square to disappear from all of the Internet. This is madn

The logical conclusion of following orders like this is for China to demand every trace of Tiananmen Square to disappear from all of the Internet. This is madness.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
This is strawman! A reasonable right to privacy is defined as a fundamental human right both by the United Nations and the European Union. The United States constructively by precedent has a right to privacy though it's not explicit and clearly, rarely followed. Right to be forgotten, as the EU defines it, is specifically written to protect individual citizens, not obscure information that is 'in the public interest' such as Chinese history.
- gorbachev 11y ago
  sigh Let's put this in a way that you could understand. So what's to prevent China from enacting a law that protects the privacy of its leaders and then demanding Google to remove all traces of any mention of any of its leaders, past or present, from the entire Internet? If you think that's a hypothetical scenario, you would be well served to read up on what's going on in Thailand with regards to writing about the king there.
  - effie 11y ago
    > So what's to prevent China from enacting a law that protects the privacy of its leaders and then demanding Google to remove all traces of any mention of any of its leaders, past or present, from the entire Internet? Nothing, because China is sovereign state. On the other hand, the European right to be forgotten does not require Google to comply with China's government demands. What China may demand of Google has nothing to do with the current topic.
    - gorbachev 11y ago
      Sure, because we obviously can't make logical conclusions of consequences from actions regarding the issue at hand. Once Google starts applying local laws globally, there's no stopping it. Everything even remotely controversial (in someone's opinion) will slowly, but surely, disappear from Google. It may take a while, but it will happen.
      - effie 11y ago
        Google is indeed required by the French regulator to de-list globally. https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/d2016-054_penalty_google.pdf https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/d2016-05... It makes sense that if the protection of privacy of the individuals by de-listing is to be effective, it must be applied to all search requests, wherever they appear to come from or whatever google domain they are sent to. This does not mean controversial things will disappear from Google. The ruling and the penalty are about de-listing of specific search results, not documents. And only for specific group of queries, involving individual's name. The documents linked in de-listed results will still be available in search via all other queries.
    - Buge 11y ago
      We're talking about China creating a new "China right to be forgotten" law, and with that new law then forcing google to censor information globally. We're not talking about China doing anything with the European law.

The logical conclusion of following orders like this is for China to demand every trace of Tiananmen Square to disappear from all of the Internet. This is madness.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago

This is strawman! A reasonable right to privacy is defined as a fundamental human right both by the United Nations and the European Union. The United States constructively by precedent has a right to privacy though it's not explicit and clearly, rarely followed. Right to be forgotten, as the EU defines it, is specifically written to protect individual citizens, not obscure information that is 'in the public interest' such as Chinese history.

gorbachev 11y ago
sigh Let's put this in a way that you could understand. So what's to prevent China from enacting a law that protects the privacy of its leaders and then demanding Google to remove all traces of any mention of any of its leaders, past or present, from the entire Internet? If you think that's a hypothetical scenario, you would be well served to read up on what's going on in Thailand with regards to writing about the king there.
- effie 11y ago
  > So what's to prevent China from enacting a law that protects the privacy of its leaders and then demanding Google to remove all traces of any mention of any of its leaders, past or present, from the entire Internet? Nothing, because China is sovereign state. On the other hand, the European right to be forgotten does not require Google to comply with China's government demands. What China may demand of Google has nothing to do with the current topic.
  - gorbachev 11y ago
    Sure, because we obviously can't make logical conclusions of consequences from actions regarding the issue at hand. Once Google starts applying local laws globally, there's no stopping it. Everything even remotely controversial (in someone's opinion) will slowly, but surely, disappear from Google. It may take a while, but it will happen.
    - effie 11y ago
      Google is indeed required by the French regulator to de-list globally. https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/d2016-054_penalty_google.pdf https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/d2016-05... It makes sense that if the protection of privacy of the individuals by de-listing is to be effective, it must be applied to all search requests, wherever they appear to come from or whatever google domain they are sent to. This does not mean controversial things will disappear from Google. The ruling and the penalty are about de-listing of specific search results, not documents. And only for specific group of queries, involving individual's name. The documents linked in de-listed results will still be available in search via all other queries.
  - Buge 11y ago
    We're talking about China creating a new "China right to be forgotten" law, and with that new law then forcing google to censor information globally. We're not talking about China doing anything with the European law.