5 ms·

Nope. Sorry, Evan Snow's recklessness in not getting his dog under control resulted in a innocent person getting shot, and cops whose careers are probably ruin

Nope. Sorry, Evan Snow's recklessness in not getting his dog under control resulted in a innocent person getting shot, and cops whose careers are probably ruined. Snow deserves a big chunk of blame here. It's simple folks: if you're not highly confident that your dog will behave itself For those of you who still harbor sympathy for Snow, do a Google search for people who have been mauled by out of control dogs. Now Snow's dog didn't end up biting, but that's beside the point. His dog clearly caused a major disturbance because he didn't control it. Snow's recklness is the root cause of this profound tragedy.

whatok 11y ago
I'm pretty sure that pointing a device that appeared to be a gun at a group of cops after ignoring their requests for him to put his hands up had a bit more of an impact than the dog in this case.
- lostlogin 11y ago
  That he pointed the tazer is very much disputed.
  - whatok 11y ago
    Ok, I'll play along. Unless you believe the cops unholstered his taser and placed it on the ground, chances are it was in his hands. Time taken to raise object that appears to be a gun and shoot someone <= time to unholster and raise weapon to shoot someone. Police need to be proactive in situations like this because being reactive could lead to getting shot.
    - lostlogin 11y ago
      The article suggests his hands were in his pockets when shot and that police fired the tazer after he was dead. The current rate of police killings indicates something needs to change. Being proactive doesn't mean killing someone each time you feel threatened. This case shows how that can play out. A little more "reactive" is exactly what was needed.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        A very similar narrative was built for what happened in Ferguson: eyewitness testimony that the victim was no threat, claims that police assertions amounted to "superhuman powers" for the victim, &c. Then the DOJ report more or less refuted all of those eyewitness claims. The police were called to the scene based on a report of a subject brandishing a firearm. They found the exact person the report referred to. The subject was indeed armed (though not with a firearm). They did not need to tamper with evidence. They didn't need to fire the taser. In fact, doing so would only put them at risk, if they somehow managed to screw up firing it themselves. The police probably did not fire the taser.
- curun1r 11y ago
  One of the key assertions of the story is that he had no reason to believe that the people requesting he show is hands were police officers. It was dark and they hadn't properly identified themselves or used sirens when arriving at the scene. We can't know the state of mind of the victim, but there's every possibility that he believed he was pointing his tazer at a group of assailants. It's incumbent on police to properly identify themselves before making demands of someone they expect to comply.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    There was one eyewitness to the shooting. Their testimony contradicted physical evidence in multiple ways (from the location of the shooting, to the number of police cars that were present.) That same witness was forced to admit on the stand that their recall was compromised by alcoholism. The same eyewitness is the basis for claims Nieto's hands were in his pocket when he was shot. But Nieto's hands were wounded by the shooting, and his pockets were not damaged.
lostlogin 11y ago
I'm not sure I have a lot of sympathy for someone who's career may be ruined for shooting an innocent person in this situation. There is a lot of bs in the police story (staring the victim in the eye when her wore glasses, the tazer being off in photos, the tazer having been fired in later photos etc).
kamaal 11y ago
>>do a Google search for people who have been mauled by out of control dogs. Also kids get killed being mauled by dogs. Not sure why people don't get this. If you own an animal that can kill a human being, you don't own a pet, you own a very dangerous animal, responsibility of actions of whose should solely rely on you. Pets are parrots, squirrels etc. Tender animals which can't cause meaningful harm to human life.
SilasX 11y ago
I agree that he should have controlled his dog better, but he certainly wasn't at fault for the conflict escalating to a shooting. It was out of his hands by the time the police arrived.

whatok 11y ago

I'm pretty sure that pointing a device that appeared to be a gun at a group of cops after ignoring their requests for him to put his hands up had a bit more of an impact than the dog in this case.

lostlogin 11y ago
That he pointed the tazer is very much disputed.
- whatok 11y ago
  Ok, I'll play along. Unless you believe the cops unholstered his taser and placed it on the ground, chances are it was in his hands. Time taken to raise object that appears to be a gun and shoot someone <= time to unholster and raise weapon to shoot someone. Police need to be proactive in situations like this because being reactive could lead to getting shot.
  - lostlogin 11y ago
    The article suggests his hands were in his pockets when shot and that police fired the tazer after he was dead. The current rate of police killings indicates something needs to change. Being proactive doesn't mean killing someone each time you feel threatened. This case shows how that can play out. A little more "reactive" is exactly what was needed.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      A very similar narrative was built for what happened in Ferguson: eyewitness testimony that the victim was no threat, claims that police assertions amounted to "superhuman powers" for the victim, &c. Then the DOJ report more or less refuted all of those eyewitness claims. The police were called to the scene based on a report of a subject brandishing a firearm. They found the exact person the report referred to. The subject was indeed armed (though not with a firearm). They did not need to tamper with evidence. They didn't need to fire the taser. In fact, doing so would only put them at risk, if they somehow managed to screw up firing it themselves. The police probably did not fire the taser.
curun1r 11y ago
One of the key assertions of the story is that he had no reason to believe that the people requesting he show is hands were police officers. It was dark and they hadn't properly identified themselves or used sirens when arriving at the scene. We can't know the state of mind of the victim, but there's every possibility that he believed he was pointing his tazer at a group of assailants. It's incumbent on police to properly identify themselves before making demands of someone they expect to comply.
- tptacek 11y ago
  There was one eyewitness to the shooting. Their testimony contradicted physical evidence in multiple ways (from the location of the shooting, to the number of police cars that were present.) That same witness was forced to admit on the stand that their recall was compromised by alcoholism. The same eyewitness is the basis for claims Nieto's hands were in his pocket when he was shot. But Nieto's hands were wounded by the shooting, and his pockets were not damaged.

lostlogin 11y ago

I'm not sure I have a lot of sympathy for someone who's career may be ruined for shooting an innocent person in this situation. There is a lot of bs in the police story (staring the victim in the eye when her wore glasses, the tazer being off in photos, the tazer having been fired in later photos etc).

kamaal 11y ago

>>do a Google search for people who have been mauled by out of control dogs. Also kids get killed being mauled by dogs. Not sure why people don't get this. If you own an animal that can kill a human being, you don't own a pet, you own a very dangerous animal, responsibility of actions of whose should solely rely on you. Pets are parrots, squirrels etc. Tender animals which can't cause meaningful harm to human life.

SilasX 11y ago

I agree that he should have controlled his dog better, but he certainly wasn't at fault for the conflict escalating to a shooting. It was out of his hands by the time the police arrived.