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Other people said he seemed agitated and nervous when their dogs were walking about by him. I imagine if a dog just charged at you and was barking/howling while

Other people said he seemed agitated and nervous when their dogs were walking about by him. I imagine if a dog just charged at you and was barking/howling while its owner was staring at someone's ass, you'd be on edge for a bit as well.

tptacek 11y ago
No shit! I agree. I read the first half of the first graf of the story angry at Solnit, for singling out this guy and scare-quoting his occupation. Then I got to the bit about the dog jumping up on Nieto and the simpering excuse-making this guy made about that and I instantly got angry at the guy instead. What an asshole! That lasted a couple minutes. But "poorly managed, barking dog jumps up on someone" happens millions of times a day, and those dogs owners are not complicit in murders. As reported elsewhere, Solnit's story leaves out Nieto's mental illness, which is apparently severe: he appears to have been schizophrenic. We don't know what Nieto's reaction was to the dog. He could have terrified, or he could have been outraged. A previous version of this comment suggested that Nieto had tased someone else at the park; he had not. I misread something; the taser incident I read about was unrelated to the park.
- mikelward 11y ago
  If true, why had his taser license not been revoked?
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Is there a such thing as a taser license? I don't think people should be allowed to arbitrarily carry tasers around, either, by the way. Certainly I don't think it's OK for bar bounces to have them. Dozens of people die every year when the police tase them. Tasers are not safe.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Gonna need a citation? Tasers certainly sound safer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082
      - tptacek 11y ago
        Your argument here appears to be that I am misguided because tasers are safer than firearms. I am not in favor of guns either.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Ah, sorry, I meant for morbidity claim.
        tptacek 11y ago
        I don't have good statistics, but late last year I went through the Guardian's police shooting database and bucketed all the killings in a spreadsheet, and I was startled to see how many people were killed by tasers. Tasers are dangerous.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        I see that Taser combined with drugs or alcohol can increase risk of heart arrhythmia. That seems to be responsible for most of the deaths. Police Officers would encounter those folks more often than the general population.
- pm24601 11y ago
  Nieto's mental illness if it exists, is not relevant. Many people are "mentally ill" but not a danger to anyone else. In fact 50% of the people killed by police are "mentally ill". Also consider that having severe depression, autism, ADD, etc. are considered mental illnesses. Alex's Nieto's "mental illness", even if existent, is not an excuse for his death.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    You are entitled to that perspective. You might be right. But Solnit is not entitled to make that decision for all of her readers by withholding that detail. I am going to gently push back on you, though, because you're making it sound as if Nieto had a completely unrelated historical diagnosis that is being used here as a smokescreen. Here are some details salient, I personally think, to this case: * Nieto had been prescribed two antipsychotics. He had not been taking them at the time the police confronted him. * Just three weeks prior to this shooting, Nieto had tased the ex-husband of a friend while they were putting their kid in a car. The victim removed the taser darts, and Nieto tased him again. The victim managed to get into the car and drive away as Nieto screamed and threatened him. * The second of Nieto's two antipsychotics was prescribed two years prior, when he was placed on psychiatric lockdown after trying to set his parents house on fire. There is mental illness of the kind that many of us suffer and manage, with varying kinds of assistance. And then there is uncontrolled, ongoing, and violent psychosis. Nobody is arguing that Nieto's mental illness is a good reason for him to have been killed. But the notion that the police, dispatched to confront a subject reported in a 911 call to have been carrying a pistol, faced someone who did indeed refuse to show their hands and then did indeed draw a weapon is corroborated by Nieto's history.
    - borvo 11y ago
      This is not a gentle pushback, you're seeking to blame the victim without quoting any sources. Your inference that the story is "corroborated by Nieto's history" is pure speculation and does not explain the contradictory statements given by the police officers. If you've left something out here then I apologise but this story disgusted me, as does your comment.
- akavi 11y ago
  > he ... had confronted (and tased) several people in that park Do you have a cite for that? Cursory googling doesn't seem to pull it up.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    I misread an article summarizing the DA report. He had, three weeks earlier, repeatedly tased someone as they were putting their kid in a car. He had not tased people at the park.
JabavuAdams 11y ago
This entitlement among pet owners to inflict their animals on other people is extremely annoying.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

tptacek 11y ago

No shit! I agree. I read the first half of the first graf of the story angry at Solnit, for singling out this guy and scare-quoting his occupation. Then I got to the bit about the dog jumping up on Nieto and the simpering excuse-making this guy made about that and I instantly got angry at the guy instead. What an asshole! That lasted a couple minutes. But "poorly managed, barking dog jumps up on someone" happens millions of times a day, and those dogs owners are not complicit in murders. As reported elsewhere, Solnit's story leaves out Nieto's mental illness, which is apparently severe: he appears to have been schizophrenic. We don't know what Nieto's reaction was to the dog. He could have terrified, or he could have been outraged. A previous version of this comment suggested that Nieto had tased someone else at the park; he had not. I misread something; the taser incident I read about was unrelated to the park.

mikelward 11y ago
If true, why had his taser license not been revoked?
- tptacek 11y ago
  Is there a such thing as a taser license? I don't think people should be allowed to arbitrarily carry tasers around, either, by the way. Certainly I don't think it's OK for bar bounces to have them. Dozens of people die every year when the police tase them. Tasers are not safe.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Gonna need a citation? Tasers certainly sound safer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Your argument here appears to be that I am misguided because tasers are safer than firearms. I am not in favor of guns either.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Ah, sorry, I meant for morbidity claim.
        tptacek 11y ago
        I don't have good statistics, but late last year I went through the Guardian's police shooting database and bucketed all the killings in a spreadsheet, and I was startled to see how many people were killed by tasers. Tasers are dangerous.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        I see that Taser combined with drugs or alcohol can increase risk of heart arrhythmia. That seems to be responsible for most of the deaths. Police Officers would encounter those folks more often than the general population.
pm24601 11y ago
Nieto's mental illness if it exists, is not relevant. Many people are "mentally ill" but not a danger to anyone else. In fact 50% of the people killed by police are "mentally ill". Also consider that having severe depression, autism, ADD, etc. are considered mental illnesses. Alex's Nieto's "mental illness", even if existent, is not an excuse for his death.
- tptacek 11y ago
  You are entitled to that perspective. You might be right. But Solnit is not entitled to make that decision for all of her readers by withholding that detail. I am going to gently push back on you, though, because you're making it sound as if Nieto had a completely unrelated historical diagnosis that is being used here as a smokescreen. Here are some details salient, I personally think, to this case: * Nieto had been prescribed two antipsychotics. He had not been taking them at the time the police confronted him. * Just three weeks prior to this shooting, Nieto had tased the ex-husband of a friend while they were putting their kid in a car. The victim removed the taser darts, and Nieto tased him again. The victim managed to get into the car and drive away as Nieto screamed and threatened him. * The second of Nieto's two antipsychotics was prescribed two years prior, when he was placed on psychiatric lockdown after trying to set his parents house on fire. There is mental illness of the kind that many of us suffer and manage, with varying kinds of assistance. And then there is uncontrolled, ongoing, and violent psychosis. Nobody is arguing that Nieto's mental illness is a good reason for him to have been killed. But the notion that the police, dispatched to confront a subject reported in a 911 call to have been carrying a pistol, faced someone who did indeed refuse to show their hands and then did indeed draw a weapon is corroborated by Nieto's history.
  - borvo 11y ago
    This is not a gentle pushback, you're seeking to blame the victim without quoting any sources. Your inference that the story is "corroborated by Nieto's history" is pure speculation and does not explain the contradictory statements given by the police officers. If you've left something out here then I apologise but this story disgusted me, as does your comment.
akavi 11y ago
> he ... had confronted (and tased) several people in that park Do you have a cite for that? Cursory googling doesn't seem to pull it up.
- tptacek 11y ago
  I misread an article summarizing the DA report. He had, three weeks earlier, repeatedly tased someone as they were putting their kid in a car. He had not tased people at the park.

JabavuAdams 11y ago

This entitlement among pet owners to inflict their animals on other people is extremely annoying.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]