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There is no such thing as shooting to not kill. Officers are (correctly) trained that if they are in a situation which warrants them shooting, they should use

There is no such thing as shooting to not kill. Officers are (correctly) trained that if they are in a situation which warrants them shooting, they should use all of the bullets currently loaded into their gun. The issue is that in the US, officers seem to come to the conclusion that killing the person is warranted way too quickly.

mtalantikite 11y ago
I meant using their firearm as their first response before even knowing what the situation is. Tamir Rice was shot by police before the car even finished coming to a stop at the scene.
chillingeffect 11y ago
Source? This source [1] [2], a police detective with 26 years of experience, contradicts it directly: "Officers are told to shoot until the threat is neutralized, down, and no longer a threat to themselves or the public. They are not trained to empty the magazine into a target." [1] http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/19/police-protocol-your-questions-answered http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/19/police-protocol-your-q... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brooks_%28journalist%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brooks_%28journalist%29
- beeboop 11y ago
  I think it's possible for you both to be correct. The definition of "neutralized" could be taught to officers as "you are 10000% sure he is dead", which is only done by firing your entire magazine into them. So while not explicitly trained to empty a magazine, it could be taught implicitly. I get the impression there are lots of "gotchas" like this in police training. Evidence in many police shootings seems to suggest emptying their magazine is normal.
Xylakant 11y ago
Obviously then the US police officers are trained badly. For 2012 the stats for the german police are: 36 bullets fired at humans, 20 injured, 8 dead. 54 bullets fired as warning shots. So it's possible to incapacitate. Stats for other european countries are similar. Firing 40 bullets at a single human, some of them after the suspect has been hit multiple times and is on the ground (and still missing the majority of shots) seems excessive.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Meanwhile, the NYPD fires 16 times in a single incident and hits nine bystanders. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander...
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    That's probably just dumb luck for the SFPD that the incident happened in a park and not in a crowded street.

mtalantikite 11y ago

I meant using their firearm as their first response before even knowing what the situation is. Tamir Rice was shot by police before the car even finished coming to a stop at the scene.

chillingeffect 11y ago

Source? This source [1] [2], a police detective with 26 years of experience, contradicts it directly: "Officers are told to shoot until the threat is neutralized, down, and no longer a threat to themselves or the public. They are not trained to empty the magazine into a target." [1] http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/19/police-protocol-your-questions-answered http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/19/police-protocol-your-q... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brooks_%28journalist%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brooks_%28journalist%29

beeboop 11y ago
I think it's possible for you both to be correct. The definition of "neutralized" could be taught to officers as "you are 10000% sure he is dead", which is only done by firing your entire magazine into them. So while not explicitly trained to empty a magazine, it could be taught implicitly. I get the impression there are lots of "gotchas" like this in police training. Evidence in many police shootings seems to suggest emptying their magazine is normal.

Xylakant 11y ago

Obviously then the US police officers are trained badly. For 2012 the stats for the german police are: 36 bullets fired at humans, 20 injured, 8 dead. 54 bullets fired as warning shots. So it's possible to incapacitate. Stats for other european countries are similar. Firing 40 bullets at a single human, some of them after the suspect has been hit multiple times and is on the ground (and still missing the majority of shots) seems excessive.

ceejayoz 11y ago
Meanwhile, the NYPD fires 16 times in a single incident and hits nine bystanders. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander...
- Xylakant 11y ago
  That's probably just dumb luck for the SFPD that the incident happened in a park and not in a crowded street.