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There's a lot left out in Solnit's article, see: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-was-not-killed-gentrification-its-worse http://www.m

There's a lot left out in Solnit's article, see: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-was-not-killed-gentrification-its-worse http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-w...

RodericDay 11y ago
> Nieto was clearly a man having a crisis, and his purported reaction when approached by police was not that of a rational person. Told to show his hands, Nieto allegedly demanded that the cops show theirs. He then reportedly drew his taser and fired three times. And so he was shot—and shot and shot—by officers who claim they did not realize Nieto was carrying a less-than-lethal device. This is the stuff she should have included into her article? This platitude about mental health, > Our jails are full of men and women whose crime is being mentally ill. Is not a more compelling analysis of the event than Solnit's take.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  Normally I'm pretty damn critical of the police, but drawing a gunlike weapon that's actually a weapon and not a plastic toy, while also being clearly out of your right mind... Well, he shouldn't have been shot, but wow.
  - blisterpeanuts 11y ago
    The police, or at least two of them, claim that he drew the taser. That doesn't mean he actually drew it, but merely that the police did what police often have done in the past--embellish or exaggerate the details to exonerate themselves. For this reason, and of course also to protect police from dishonest civilian witnesses, body cams should be standard issue equipment. In fact, I'm surprised SFPD hasn't long since required them.
    - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
      Good points.
- schumpeter 11y ago
  Here, let me help you out... > ...there is no mention whatsoever of Nieto’s long and well-documented battle with mental illness. No mention of Nieto’s “history of aggressive and bizarre behavior and auditory hallucinations,” as described in a letter written by District Attorney George Gascón following his office’s investigation of the shooting. Likewise, no mention of “a clinical history of psychosis exacerbated by his failure to take ... medications.” No mention of a police report filed less than three weeks before Nieto’s death by a man alleging that Nieto tased him (Nieto, in turn, filed a police report claiming this was an act of self-defense). No mention of prior incidents in which police intervened when Nieto’s internal battles spilled out into the public sphere. - See more at: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-was-not-killed-gentrification-its-worse#sthash.Y6wXsh3O.dpuf http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-w...
  - RodericDay 11y ago
    The severity of his "long and well-documented battle with mental illness" is: a) Disputed b) Weaponized against him, taking advantage of the fear and misunderstanding people have of mental illness ("he burnt a book! that sounds like he'd pull guns on people!") c) Used to avoid engaging with the racial issue that brought it to the fore
    - refurb 11y ago
      Disputed? He was confined on a 72 hour mental health hold twice. You need to be examined by health professionals for that to happen. I would argue his mental health problems are not disputed at all. I also love how you said "he burned a book". No, he set a book on fire in his parents home, which they luckily extinguished, then took the ashes and ate them. Even his parents said they were in fear of their own safety. Jesus, twisting facts knows no ends when it comes to supporting a certain narrative doesn't it?
- laurencerowe 11y ago
  I'm generally sympathetic to Solnit's previous writings on gentrification in SF, but this just seems too much of a stretch to me. Police violence in SF (and across the US) is out of control. They need training in how to de-escalate confrontations without resorting to overwhelming firepower.
  - dikdik 11y ago
    I don't think that the gentrification is completely referring to the police, but also to the couple that called the cops. I actually know the couple, they are very nice people and I am sure they feel terrible about what happened. But they are from upper-middle and upper class families, I am sadly not too surprised that they felt threatened by a latino man in a park.
musesum 11y ago
Interesting counterpoint: "60 percent of the people shot by San Francisco police in the preceding nine years were suffering from mental illness." I suspect that if neighborhoods were more static, then the neighbors would know who was a real threat; fewer false positives.
jcromartie 11y ago
When reading anything on The Guardian it's important to ask what they aren't telling you, because it's almost certain that they are omitting many very salient details out in order to fit the story into their own narrative. If you knew that Nieto had other problems, you likely wouldn't come away from the Guardian article believing that he was executed for being Hispanic.
- dbpokorny 11y ago
  The Guardian and Salon are two of the worst offenders. I learned a little while ago that Sam Harris took on Salon. I always thought Sam Harris was a blowhard and annoying to listen to, but I have a lot of respect for him now. We need more honest, courageous intellectuals to take on the fourth estate.
jcromartie 11y ago
When reading anything on The Guardian it's important to ask what they aren't telling you, because it's almost certain that they are omitting many very salient details out in order to fit the story into their own narrative. If you knew that Nieto had other problems, you likely wouldn't come away from the Guardian article believing that he was executed for being Hispanic.
dmschulman 11y ago
How can you ignore the inciting incident in this case? Perhaps the victim was a man with some personal issues, but before being harassed by Evan Snow, Alex Nieto was a man minding his own business.
- tptacek 11y ago
  That's not what happened. Snow was an irresponsible dog owner; his dog jumped on Nieto. That happens to me on walks once every other week. I am rarely murdered as a result. What made this situation special was that Nieto was armed with a taser. When Snow's dog assaulted him, as poorly managed dogs do, Nieto prepared to zap it with the taser. Snow tried to tell Nieto not to tase his dog (the DA investigation says that Snow "begged" Nieto not to tase his dog, but let's allocate all charity to the dead and assume Snow was a dick about it). Nieto's problem stopped being the dog. Instead, he confronted Snow, threatening to tase him, and suggesting that the two fight. That, too, is detail we can only source from Snow's own report, but it squares with things like the text he sent to his friend and the reports he made to people outside the park.
  - dmschulman 11y ago
    The dog is Snow's property. His irresponsibility as a dog owner set off this series of events. The victim did not threaten a man's dog out of spite, he felt threatened by the animal and Snow's actions (or lack there of) escalated this unfortunate situation.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      What did I write that made you think I would disagree with that? He was a shitty dog owner, and an asshole. There are millions of shitty dog owners and even more assholes (and that is an overlapping Venn diagram if ever). He was also probably a racist --- that text message did happen, and the DA report suggests he's a firearms enthusiast as well. He's a creepy guy I don't ever want to meet. That doesn't make him in any way responsible for Nieto's death. Sorry, it just doesn't.

RodericDay 11y ago

> Nieto was clearly a man having a crisis, and his purported reaction when approached by police was not that of a rational person. Told to show his hands, Nieto allegedly demanded that the cops show theirs. He then reportedly drew his taser and fired three times. And so he was shot—and shot and shot—by officers who claim they did not realize Nieto was carrying a less-than-lethal device. This is the stuff she should have included into her article? This platitude about mental health, > Our jails are full of men and women whose crime is being mentally ill. Is not a more compelling analysis of the event than Solnit's take.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago
Normally I'm pretty damn critical of the police, but drawing a gunlike weapon that's actually a weapon and not a plastic toy, while also being clearly out of your right mind... Well, he shouldn't have been shot, but wow.
- blisterpeanuts 11y ago
  The police, or at least two of them, claim that he drew the taser. That doesn't mean he actually drew it, but merely that the police did what police often have done in the past--embellish or exaggerate the details to exonerate themselves. For this reason, and of course also to protect police from dishonest civilian witnesses, body cams should be standard issue equipment. In fact, I'm surprised SFPD hasn't long since required them.
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    Good points.
schumpeter 11y ago
Here, let me help you out... > ...there is no mention whatsoever of Nieto’s long and well-documented battle with mental illness. No mention of Nieto’s “history of aggressive and bizarre behavior and auditory hallucinations,” as described in a letter written by District Attorney George Gascón following his office’s investigation of the shooting. Likewise, no mention of “a clinical history of psychosis exacerbated by his failure to take ... medications.” No mention of a police report filed less than three weeks before Nieto’s death by a man alleging that Nieto tased him (Nieto, in turn, filed a police report claiming this was an act of self-defense). No mention of prior incidents in which police intervened when Nieto’s internal battles spilled out into the public sphere. - See more at: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-was-not-killed-gentrification-its-worse#sthash.Y6wXsh3O.dpuf http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-w...
- RodericDay 11y ago
  The severity of his "long and well-documented battle with mental illness" is: a) Disputed b) Weaponized against him, taking advantage of the fear and misunderstanding people have of mental illness ("he burnt a book! that sounds like he'd pull guns on people!") c) Used to avoid engaging with the racial issue that brought it to the fore
  - refurb 11y ago
    Disputed? He was confined on a 72 hour mental health hold twice. You need to be examined by health professionals for that to happen. I would argue his mental health problems are not disputed at all. I also love how you said "he burned a book". No, he set a book on fire in his parents home, which they luckily extinguished, then took the ashes and ate them. Even his parents said they were in fear of their own safety. Jesus, twisting facts knows no ends when it comes to supporting a certain narrative doesn't it?
laurencerowe 11y ago
I'm generally sympathetic to Solnit's previous writings on gentrification in SF, but this just seems too much of a stretch to me. Police violence in SF (and across the US) is out of control. They need training in how to de-escalate confrontations without resorting to overwhelming firepower.
- dikdik 11y ago
  I don't think that the gentrification is completely referring to the police, but also to the couple that called the cops. I actually know the couple, they are very nice people and I am sure they feel terrible about what happened. But they are from upper-middle and upper class families, I am sadly not too surprised that they felt threatened by a latino man in a park.

musesum 11y ago

Interesting counterpoint: "60 percent of the people shot by San Francisco police in the preceding nine years were suffering from mental illness." I suspect that if neighborhoods were more static, then the neighbors would know who was a real threat; fewer false positives.

jcromartie 11y ago

When reading anything on The Guardian it's important to ask what they aren't telling you, because it's almost certain that they are omitting many very salient details out in order to fit the story into their own narrative. If you knew that Nieto had other problems, you likely wouldn't come away from the Guardian article believing that he was executed for being Hispanic.

dbpokorny 11y ago
The Guardian and Salon are two of the worst offenders. I learned a little while ago that Sam Harris took on Salon. I always thought Sam Harris was a blowhard and annoying to listen to, but I have a lot of respect for him now. We need more honest, courageous intellectuals to take on the fourth estate.

jcromartie 11y ago

dmschulman 11y ago

How can you ignore the inciting incident in this case? Perhaps the victim was a man with some personal issues, but before being harassed by Evan Snow, Alex Nieto was a man minding his own business.

tptacek 11y ago
That's not what happened. Snow was an irresponsible dog owner; his dog jumped on Nieto. That happens to me on walks once every other week. I am rarely murdered as a result. What made this situation special was that Nieto was armed with a taser. When Snow's dog assaulted him, as poorly managed dogs do, Nieto prepared to zap it with the taser. Snow tried to tell Nieto not to tase his dog (the DA investigation says that Snow "begged" Nieto not to tase his dog, but let's allocate all charity to the dead and assume Snow was a dick about it). Nieto's problem stopped being the dog. Instead, he confronted Snow, threatening to tase him, and suggesting that the two fight. That, too, is detail we can only source from Snow's own report, but it squares with things like the text he sent to his friend and the reports he made to people outside the park.
- dmschulman 11y ago
  The dog is Snow's property. His irresponsibility as a dog owner set off this series of events. The victim did not threaten a man's dog out of spite, he felt threatened by the animal and Snow's actions (or lack there of) escalated this unfortunate situation.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    What did I write that made you think I would disagree with that? He was a shitty dog owner, and an asshole. There are millions of shitty dog owners and even more assholes (and that is an overlapping Venn diagram if ever). He was also probably a racist --- that text message did happen, and the DA report suggests he's a firearms enthusiast as well. He's a creepy guy I don't ever want to meet. That doesn't make him in any way responsible for Nieto's death. Sorry, it just doesn't.