4 ms·

This is the taser Alex Nieto pointed at the police and refused to drop (if the police are telling the truth): http://i2.wp.com/missionlocal.org/wp-content/uplo

by raldi 11y ago

This is the taser Alex Nieto pointed at the police and refused to drop (if the police are telling the truth): http://i2.wp.com/missionlocal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/taser.jpg http://i2.wp.com/missionlocal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03...

dangerlibrary 11y ago
allegedly pointed The four police officer's stories contradict one another as well as some of the physical evidence.
- justaman 11y ago
  If the taser was found anywhere but holstered it means that he _likely_ drew it. Any motion to draw a weapon(lethal or otherwise) is seen as a threat. Given that it is gun-shaped, it was a really stupid move if he did draw it.
  - dangerlibrary 11y ago
    Given that he studied criminal justice and had no criminal record whatsoever, I'm sure he knew how stupid that would be. Nobody has provided a reasonable explanation for why he would've done something so stupid.
    - raldi 11y ago
      He was suffering from schizophrenia and earlier that month shot his friend three times with the taser, according to the friend's testimony at a restraining-order hearing.
bonaldi 11y ago
Er, the taser some officers claim was pointed at them, and the one that was lying on the ground beside his collapsed body as it was still being shot by officers
true_religion 11y ago
Allegedly. In any case, that makes it to trial, the police by default have always claimed that a weapon was pointed at them, and the suspect refused to cooperate. It's the only reasonable defense, and plays out better than the more realistic "cooperation wasn't instantaneous, we argued, and then my fellow officer started shooting for unknown reasons so I automatically shot too".
- raldi 11y ago
  In this case, there are multiple bystanders who testify they say Nieto pointing the weapon at people and the dog: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police...
  - mcguire 11y ago
    The only witness described as seeing the Taser drawn was the owner of the dog that had just threatened Nieto.
    - raldi 11y ago
      Plus four police officers. And there's also this testimony: According to San Francisco court records, Nieto's former friend Arthur Vega described a March 5 incident in which Nieto had used a stun gun. In a March 14 request for a restraining order, Vega said Nieto shocked him four times in the back in front of his wife and 3-year-old son. Vega said he had been picking up his son when Nieto appeared and forced himself into his wife's car. Vega said Nieto had screamed profanities. He and his wife got away, but two days later he saw what he believed to be Nieto's car following him. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police...
      - mcguire 11y ago
        The previous incident seems irrelevant to the behavior of the actors in the situation in question. I personally have problems with eyewitness testimony in general. Uncorroborated testimony of the defendants...
egwynn 11y ago
Lacking any “real” contradictory evidence, I guess we have to take the police’s claim reluctantly at face-value. The police don’t exactly have an impeccable track record when it comes to on-the-record honesty, but in this case their (often inconsistent) testimony is all we’ve got. And when you combine that with the lead-up to his police encounter, where basically everyone he ran into (in this narrative) treated him disrespectfully, then it starts to smell understandably fishy. EDIT: Is it too much to ask for responses in lieu of down-votes? Discussions work better when we work together on our ideas instead of just shutting down the stuff we disagree with.
- mcguire 11y ago
  From the article: "The city lawyers brought in a Taser expert whose official testimony seemed to favour them, but when he was asked by Pointer to look at the crime‑scene photos, he said the Taser was off and that it was not something easily or accidentally turned on or off. The light is only on when the Taser is on. Officer Morse had testified that when he arrived to kick it out of Nieto’s hands there was no red light or wires coming from it. The Taser wires are, however, visible in the police photographs documenting the scene." Real contradictory evidence?
RVuRnvbM2e 11y ago
Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto-never-drew-weapon/ http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...
- raldi 11y ago
  Fritz wasn't the one who called the police. Multiple other witnesses testify that Nieto had the weapon out and was pointing it at people and a dog: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police... What would you have done if you'd seen that?
  - RVuRnvbM2e 11y ago
    > Fritz wasn't the one who called the police. Yes, he was. > What would you have done if you'd seen that? I disagree with the ridiculous US weapons laws, but if a defensive weapon can't be drawn against an aggressive dog, when can it be drawn?
    - raldi 11y ago
      You're right, I mixed him up with Evan Snow: "He grabbed the item in the holster, he removed it from the holster, and he pointed it directly at me,” Snow testified. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-says-alex-nieto-pointed-taser-at-him-before-shooting/ http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-says-alex-nieto-poin... It's perfectly fine to draw a weapon to protect yourself from such a dog. But when the police show up and tell you to drop it, it's incredibly dangerous to refuse.
- mooseburger 11y ago
  >"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't fathom why an innocent would insist on literally dressing like a gangbanger.

by raldi 11y ago

dangerlibrary 11y ago

allegedly pointed The four police officer's stories contradict one another as well as some of the physical evidence.

justaman 11y ago
If the taser was found anywhere but holstered it means that he _likely_ drew it. Any motion to draw a weapon(lethal or otherwise) is seen as a threat. Given that it is gun-shaped, it was a really stupid move if he did draw it.
- dangerlibrary 11y ago
  Given that he studied criminal justice and had no criminal record whatsoever, I'm sure he knew how stupid that would be. Nobody has provided a reasonable explanation for why he would've done something so stupid.
  - raldi 11y ago
    He was suffering from schizophrenia and earlier that month shot his friend three times with the taser, according to the friend's testimony at a restraining-order hearing.

bonaldi 11y ago

Er, the taser some officers claim was pointed at them, and the one that was lying on the ground beside his collapsed body as it was still being shot by officers

true_religion 11y ago

Allegedly. In any case, that makes it to trial, the police by default have always claimed that a weapon was pointed at them, and the suspect refused to cooperate. It's the only reasonable defense, and plays out better than the more realistic "cooperation wasn't instantaneous, we argued, and then my fellow officer started shooting for unknown reasons so I automatically shot too".

raldi 11y ago
In this case, there are multiple bystanders who testify they say Nieto pointing the weapon at people and the dog: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police...
- mcguire 11y ago
  The only witness described as seeing the Taser drawn was the owner of the dog that had just threatened Nieto.
  - raldi 11y ago
    Plus four police officers. And there's also this testimony: According to San Francisco court records, Nieto's former friend Arthur Vega described a March 5 incident in which Nieto had used a stun gun. In a March 14 request for a restraining order, Vega said Nieto shocked him four times in the back in front of his wife and 3-year-old son. Vega said he had been picking up his son when Nieto appeared and forced himself into his wife's car. Vega said Nieto had screamed profanities. He and his wife got away, but two days later he saw what he believed to be Nieto's car following him. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police...
    - mcguire 11y ago
      The previous incident seems irrelevant to the behavior of the actors in the situation in question. I personally have problems with eyewitness testimony in general. Uncorroborated testimony of the defendants...

egwynn 11y ago

Lacking any “real” contradictory evidence, I guess we have to take the police’s claim reluctantly at face-value. The police don’t exactly have an impeccable track record when it comes to on-the-record honesty, but in this case their (often inconsistent) testimony is all we’ve got. And when you combine that with the lead-up to his police encounter, where basically everyone he ran into (in this narrative) treated him disrespectfully, then it starts to smell understandably fishy. EDIT: Is it too much to ask for responses in lieu of down-votes? Discussions work better when we work together on our ideas instead of just shutting down the stuff we disagree with.

mcguire 11y ago
From the article: "The city lawyers brought in a Taser expert whose official testimony seemed to favour them, but when he was asked by Pointer to look at the crime‑scene photos, he said the Taser was off and that it was not something easily or accidentally turned on or off. The light is only on when the Taser is on. Officer Morse had testified that when he arrived to kick it out of Nieto’s hands there was no red light or wires coming from it. The Taser wires are, however, visible in the police photographs documenting the scene." Real contradictory evidence?

RVuRnvbM2e 11y ago

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto-never-drew-weapon/ http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

raldi 11y ago
Fritz wasn't the one who called the police. Multiple other witnesses testify that Nieto had the weapon out and was pointing it at people and a dog: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police-was-inspiration-but-5344159.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Man-killed-by-S-F-police... What would you have done if you'd seen that?
- RVuRnvbM2e 11y ago
  > Fritz wasn't the one who called the police. Yes, he was. > What would you have done if you'd seen that? I disagree with the ridiculous US weapons laws, but if a defensive weapon can't be drawn against an aggressive dog, when can it be drawn?
  - raldi 11y ago
    You're right, I mixed him up with Evan Snow: "He grabbed the item in the holster, he removed it from the holster, and he pointed it directly at me,” Snow testified. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-says-alex-nieto-pointed-taser-at-him-before-shooting/ http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-says-alex-nieto-poin... It's perfectly fine to draw a weapon to protect yourself from such a dog. But when the police show up and tell you to drop it, it's incredibly dangerous to refuse.
mooseburger 11y ago
>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't fathom why an innocent would insist on literally dressing like a gangbanger.