5 ms·

i don't want to diminish the anxiety that those kind of situations can produce, but talking about voting for physically violent measures still is different from

by bsaul 11y ago

i don't want to diminish the anxiety that those kind of situations can produce, but talking about voting for physically violent measures still is different from actually doing them.

sp332 11y ago
I disagree. Promoting violence is violent. Especially if you write it all over a college campus where the targets of the violence are living. Edit: that's why "aiding and abetting" or "conspiracy to" commit crimes is also a crime.
- xupybd 11y ago
  At this point it's only speculation that this is promoting violence. While people may be feeling a lot of fear, that response might not be entirely rational.
  - sp332 11y ago
    How many violent people have to loudly proclaim their support for Trump before the fear becomes "rational"?
    - imron 11y ago
      Since when is guilt by association a concept worth supporting?
      - sp332 11y ago
        [Edit: removed paragraph] Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus. If they were just supporting Trump I would have a lot less problem with this.
        imron 11y ago
        > and that's why Trump is wrong to say that Mexican immigrants are criminals who should all be deported Which is not what Trump said by the way. As I mentioned in another post I don't support Trump (and neither am I even able to vote in US elections) and I have no horse in this race, but if you're going to criticise him, at least do it for things he said, not for exaggerations of what you think he said. > Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus No, what happened was entirely impersonal, and not threatening in any way unless you perform a large amount of mental and linguistic gymnastics.
        sp332 11y ago
        Ok, I removed that part. But I have no idea what you mean by "impersonal" when the action is clearly aimed at the Latino students.
        imron 11y ago
        It is impersonal because it wasn't someone coming and speaking to you personally, nor was it a message that specifically mentioned you. It was just a generic message chalked by some unknown 3rd party, and not specifically directed at anyone. I fail to see how chalking 'trump 2016' is 'clearly aimed at Latino students'? Latinos are not the only group he has marginalised, but even then maybe it was written by someone who supports some other policies of his or by someone who wants to see some fresh names in politics beyond just Clinton/Bush. From what I can tell many of Trump's supporters don't like all his policies either. What they like is that he is unlike any other politician running for office and that he has enough of his own money that his words aren't bought and paid for by others. In debating you learn you cannot make a convincing argument without thoroughly understanding your opponents arguments and lines of reasoning. If you think the only reason people want to vote for Trump is because they are rascist and intend for violence to be committed against certain groups in society, then you will fail to convince most of them not to vote for Trump, because that is not what they want or believe.
    - pigpaws 11y ago
      @imron - you mean like this guy? the infamous black panther at the voting polls? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_... but, like you probably said (in your head), he wasn't convicted, so he must have been innocent... not quite the way others saw it though...
- imron 11y ago
  > Promoting violence is violent Chalking 'Trump 2016' is a decidedly non-violent action. You might find it offensive, distasteful, disrespectful, or any number of other adjectives, but it is not in any way violent. I say this as someone who does not support Donald Trump or his policies.

by bsaul 11y ago

i don't want to diminish the anxiety that those kind of situations can produce, but talking about voting for physically violent measures still is different from actually doing them.

sp332 11y ago

I disagree. Promoting violence is violent. Especially if you write it all over a college campus where the targets of the violence are living. Edit: that's why "aiding and abetting" or "conspiracy to" commit crimes is also a crime.

xupybd 11y ago
At this point it's only speculation that this is promoting violence. While people may be feeling a lot of fear, that response might not be entirely rational.
- sp332 11y ago
  How many violent people have to loudly proclaim their support for Trump before the fear becomes "rational"?
  - imron 11y ago
    Since when is guilt by association a concept worth supporting?
    - sp332 11y ago
      [Edit: removed paragraph] Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus. If they were just supporting Trump I would have a lot less problem with this.
      - imron 11y ago
        > and that's why Trump is wrong to say that Mexican immigrants are criminals who should all be deported Which is not what Trump said by the way. As I mentioned in another post I don't support Trump (and neither am I even able to vote in US elections) and I have no horse in this race, but if you're going to criticise him, at least do it for things he said, not for exaggerations of what you think he said. > Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus No, what happened was entirely impersonal, and not threatening in any way unless you perform a large amount of mental and linguistic gymnastics.
        sp332 11y ago
        Ok, I removed that part. But I have no idea what you mean by "impersonal" when the action is clearly aimed at the Latino students.
        imron 11y ago
        It is impersonal because it wasn't someone coming and speaking to you personally, nor was it a message that specifically mentioned you. It was just a generic message chalked by some unknown 3rd party, and not specifically directed at anyone. I fail to see how chalking 'trump 2016' is 'clearly aimed at Latino students'? Latinos are not the only group he has marginalised, but even then maybe it was written by someone who supports some other policies of his or by someone who wants to see some fresh names in politics beyond just Clinton/Bush. From what I can tell many of Trump's supporters don't like all his policies either. What they like is that he is unlike any other politician running for office and that he has enough of his own money that his words aren't bought and paid for by others. In debating you learn you cannot make a convincing argument without thoroughly understanding your opponents arguments and lines of reasoning. If you think the only reason people want to vote for Trump is because they are rascist and intend for violence to be committed against certain groups in society, then you will fail to convince most of them not to vote for Trump, because that is not what they want or believe.
  - pigpaws 11y ago
    @imron - you mean like this guy? the infamous black panther at the voting polls? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_... but, like you probably said (in your head), he wasn't convicted, so he must have been innocent... not quite the way others saw it though...
imron 11y ago
> Promoting violence is violent Chalking 'Trump 2016' is a decidedly non-violent action. You might find it offensive, distasteful, disrespectful, or any number of other adjectives, but it is not in any way violent. I say this as someone who does not support Donald Trump or his policies.