8 ms·

I long for a day we don't hear about "safe spaces" anymore - especially at universities. Challenge your own beliefs, and those of others. If you think someone

• sp332 11y ago
  A university is a safe space from physical violence. And why would I be ok with someone advocating that I or my family be deported? Because that's what just happened to these students.
  • bsaul 11y ago
    i don't want to diminish the anxiety that those kind of situations can produce, but talking about voting for physically violent measures still is different from actually doing them.
    • sp332 11y ago
      I disagree. Promoting violence is violent. Especially if you write it all over a college campus where the targets of the violence are living. Edit: that's why "aiding and abetting" or "conspiracy to" commit crimes is also a crime.
      • xupybd 11y ago
        At this point it's only speculation that this is promoting violence. While people may be feeling a lot of fear, that response might not be entirely rational.
        • sp332 11y ago
          How many violent people have to loudly proclaim their support for Trump before the fear becomes "rational"?
          • imron 11y ago
            Since when is guilt by association a concept worth supporting?
            • sp332 11y ago
              [Edit: removed paragraph] Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus. If they were just supporting Trump I would have a lot less problem with this.
              • imron 11y ago
                > and that's why Trump is wrong to say that Mexican immigrants are criminals who should all be deported Which is not what Trump said by the way. As I mentioned in another post I don't support Trump (and neither am I even able to vote in US elections) and I have no horse in this race, but if you're going to criticise him, at least do it for things he said, not for exaggerations of what you think he said. > Whoever did this is personally threatening students on campus No, what happened was entirely impersonal, and not threatening in any way unless you perform a large amount of mental and linguistic gymnastics.
                • sp332 11y ago
                  Ok, I removed that part. But I have no idea what you mean by "impersonal" when the action is clearly aimed at the Latino students.
                  • imron 11y ago
                    It is impersonal because it wasn't someone coming and speaking to you personally, nor was it a message that specifically mentioned you. It was just a generic message chalked by some unknown 3rd party, and not specifically directed at anyone. I fail to see how chalking 'trump 2016' is 'clearly aimed at Latino students'? Latinos are not the only group he has marginalised, but even then maybe it was written by someone who supports some other policies of his or by someone who wants to see some fresh names in politics beyond just Clinton/Bush. From what I can tell many of Trump's supporters don't like all his policies either. What they like is that he is unlike any other politician running for office and that he has enough of his own money that his words aren't bought and paid for by others. In debating you learn you cannot make a convincing argument without thoroughly understanding your opponents arguments and lines of reasoning. If you think the only reason people want to vote for Trump is because they are rascist and intend for violence to be committed against certain groups in society, then you will fail to convince most of them not to vote for Trump, because that is not what they want or believe.
      • imron 11y ago
        > Promoting violence is violent Chalking 'Trump 2016' is a decidedly non-violent action. You might find it offensive, distasteful, disrespectful, or any number of other adjectives, but it is not in any way violent. I say this as someone who does not support Donald Trump or his policies.
  • elthran 11y ago
    Under the law, /everywhere/ is a safe space from physical violence - universities are not special in this regard. And the law only stays that way as long as the people in power decide to maintain it as such. I'm also not saying you have to be OK with the message - just that rather than trying to shut down the people making statements, they should be engaged and challenged.
    • sp332 11y ago
      "Engaged and challenged" doesn't mean letting them cover the campus in graffiti.
      • tclmeelmo 11y ago
        Chalk markings are not uncommon on the Emory campus, and I think it's a little severe to call them graffiti. For example, https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgraves91/status/541046363161890816 https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelgraves91/status/5410463631...
  • merpnderp 11y ago
    First off, the first amendment is clear on this issue and FIRE has a 100% success rate (donate today if you can) in overturning school bans on speech. And perhaps you should allow that speech the same way I wouldn't be okay with Hillaray 2016 who spearheaded the effort to create the situation in Syria (along with Lybia Egypt and Iraq) which has caused the deaths of over 500k people and tens of millions of homeless. If one of the presidential contenders doesn't make you safe, I would think Hillary would be first to mind with bloody deadly wars in the wake of her only tenure in real power.
    • sp332 11y ago
      Harassment and threats aren't covered. I think you're right about Hillary, but what does that have to do with this conversation?
      • merpnderp 11y ago
        Writing "Trump 2016" on the ground during an election year is only a threat or harassment in the case of a few people's (poorly thought out) opinion. It isn't a threat in the eyes of the law or the first amendment, even if it weren't an election year. And people who push for this type of patriarchal protection from ideas that scare them should be careful that this doesn't become the norm, for their own opinions are surely as "threatening" to others.
    • greenyoda 11y ago
      "the first amendment is clear on this issue" Since the First Amendment only restricts the actions of the federal (and by extension the state and local) government, it only applies to universities run by the government (e.g., state universities). Private universities like Emory are not bound by the First Amendment any more than a shopping mall is. However, there are other ways to pressure universities to allow freedom of speech: exposing their actions in the press, alumni cutting off financial support, etc.
  • mkohlmyr 11y ago
    You don't have to like it. You do have to accept that some people have an opinion you don't like and that they have a right to express it. And where on earth did you get "physical violence" from?
    • sp332 11y ago
      Partly Trump http://mashable.com/2016/03/12/trump-rally-incite-violence/ http://mashable.com/2016/03/12/trump-rally-incite-violence/ But his supporters are the ones beating and kicking people. Most recently https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/14/trump-trump-trump-yells-attacker-as-he-beats-hispanic-man-muslim-student/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/1... Edit: forgot his campaign manager http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/breitbart-s-michelle-fields-ben-shapiro-resign-over-trump-incident-n537711 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/breitbart-s-michelle-fie...
      • mkohlmyr 11y ago
        And Al Sharpton gatherings have resulted in killings.. Just because someone agrees with you or associates themselves with you does not mean you have to be held accountable for their actions. It is my understanding the breitbart woman was proven to be lying about what actually happened by multiple videos showing the "incident". I hadn't even heard about it before today but even a cursory google gave me this (admittedly poorly done) video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoMPxomjiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoMPxomjiw so maybe you shouldn't spread that.
        • sp332 11y ago
          This isn't about blaming Trump for the graffiti. This is about other people using Trump's campaign to harass and threaten Latino students. She said she almost fell but kept her balance. http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/03/10/3276486/ http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/03/10/3276486/
  • dbattaglia 11y ago
    If young people can't handle seeing "Vote {other party or candidate}" during election season, regardless of their beliefs, they are in for a lifetime of suffering.
    • sp332 11y ago
      This wasn't part of a campaign. And the vote was over already so it wasn't trying to get out the vote for Trump either.
      • dbattaglia 11y ago
        Someone advocating to vote for a candidate doesn't have to be part of a specific campaign. It's a common thing seen and heard everywhere during elections.
      • xlm1717 11y ago
        There's another vote in November.
  • Omniusaspirer 11y ago
    I don't think graffiti qualifies as "physical violence". If you or your family is here illegally then you do so with the understanding that you might be deported. There's certainly good arguments to be made that our immigration policies need to be changed, but "beef up border security and deport current illegals" is absolutely a valid proposal and one that's supported by a large number of both American and Mexican nationals (who are hardly fond of Nicaraguan immigrants). It may not be the view I personally hold but adding ridiculous hyperbole and unbridled emotion into your stance makes it hard to take seriously.
    • sp332 11y ago
      You're not going to have a productive conversation about immigration if you pretend emotion doesn't exist.
      • Omniusaspirer 11y ago
        Emotions are high on both sides, and are quantifiable for neither. Policy should be driven by metrics, not exaggerated emotional appeals.
        • sp332 11y ago
          Deciding whether policy should encourage or discourage immigration is 98% value judgement. "Metrics" might be able to measure what you care about, but you have to decide what to care about first.
  • ap3 11y ago
    It's the federal government that deports people, following the immigration laws of the US. Are you saying you don't feel safe walking around the US knowing that ICE or CBP deport people?
• Broken_Hippo 11y ago
  I long for that as well - no more safe spaces (to a point), and in a way, I do understand people simply telling others to grow up. It was, after all, just some political graffiti. Had someone went around 4 years ago and wrote Obamas name instead of Trump, this situation would be different. Many find Trump to be an absolute horror - I doubt I'll be visit "home" back in the US if he's elected because I simply won't feel safe (I live overseas and am not Christian, dunno how many other marks I might have against me), and will doubt my own continued freedom. And I dread him Not being on the ballot, at least, because some of his supporters seem to be very willing to turn to violence. I absolutely understand their concern and feeling of unease and lack of safety on campus, and that really should be addressed at some point. I do believe the school should treat the political graffiti like any other graffiti, and simply remind students that threatening actual violence (or committing such) continues to be forbidden, as does altering school property, and that people are going to have differing viewpoints on different stuff, and that they need to be able to act with civility regardless. But the anxiety really should be addressed, as it is truly more than simply being offended at some chalked words on campus.
  • xupybd 11y ago
    What do you think Trump would do to you for being non Christian? This is the first I've heard that non Christians fear him.
    • sp332 11y ago
      Given his insane anti-Muslim messages, it's not much of a stretch to think he'll attack other groups to appeal to his base of Christians. http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/19/politics/donald-trump-south-carolina-john-pershing/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/19/politics/donald-trump-south-ca...
      • xupybd 11y ago
        Well yeah it is a bit of a stretch. He is ridding a wave of anti Islamic sentiment because there is an extremely violent group getting a lot of media attention by killing in the name of Islam. He is painting every day non violent Muslims as the enemy because people like a black and white us vs them. As opposed to the more complex reality, I don't think there is an opportunity for this to happen with other people groups.
• throwaway2016a 11y ago
  I might get down voted a lot for this but... Speaking as a millennial. If you need a safe space at the university you will get walked all over in the real world. Same with raising small children. I got scrapes and stitches as a kid and most of the people I grew up with broke a bone at one point. We didn't die. We're actually stronger for it. Yet most parents these days freak out if their kid trips (even if there isn't any blood). When that happened to me, we washed it, stuck on a bandage and went back to playing 2 minutes later. The only way things will change if people stop hiding from problems in these safe spaces and confront them and learn from them.
  • stillsut 11y ago
    > If you need a safe space at the university you will get walked all over in the real world. This is what I thought as well; surely the tougher and more resilient person is more valued to an organization. But most elite organizations now participate in a grievance culture. For example Hulk Hogan will now receive more in damages against Gawker than all the money he has earned through hard work and perseverance in his entire life. In this new world of ours, the louder and more viral your grievance goes, the more power and influence you can earn, compared to the suckers keeping their head down and taking the good with the bad. Incentives still rule behavior - and the truth about the colleges especially is that playing the victim card is lucrative. If you're unprepared to deal with people demanding a safe space, and unprepared to demand one for yourself when right political situation arises, you will get walked all over in life.
• beeboop 11y ago
  The days of universities being bastions of free speech and a place to challenge ideas is over. Universities are now first and foremost a businesses, and students attend almost entirely within the context of a business transaction. Money and time goes in, credentials come out. Most students don't care about anything else. The question is: what, if anything, will take their place?