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Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

197 points by spudlyo 17y ago

natrius 17y ago
PDF if the site goes down: http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~niran/joe_stack_note.pdf http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~ni... The site's been holding up surprisingly well. Not bad, T35 Hosting. EDIT: It looks like it's gone now. Here's the home.htm that was on the site as well: http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~niran/embeddedart_home.pdf http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~ni...
- spudlyo 17y ago
  It helps that it's 33K of static HTML. Looks like it was converted from Word, some interesting metadata: <o:Author>Joe Stack</o:Author> <o:LastAuthor>Joe</o:LastAuthor> <o:Revision>27</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>1848</o:TotalTime> <o:Created>2010-02-16T19:24:00Z</o:Created> <o:LastSaved>2010-02-18T06:42:00Z</o:LastSaved>
  - natrius 17y ago
    Most static pages still get pulled by hosting providers when faced with that kind of traffic. That might be what happened here, or the authorities could've asked them to pull it.
    - icefox 17y ago
      I could understand for dynamic pages, but static? Do they think they are getting attacked?
      - natrius 17y ago
        Accounts usually have bandwidth limits that get tripped by this sort of thing. 33 kB * millions of viewers = gigabytes of data.
nym 17y ago
Summary?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- colinplamondon 17y ago
  Guy dicks around with forces he doesn't have the free cash available to dick around with, blames IRS. Later finds himself losing work due to working in aerospace as Air Force bases are closed in the 90's, leading into 9/11 and a meltdown in his ability to generate personal revenue. Blames IRS. Runs out of money, blames IRS. Flies plain into IRS building with the intent to indiscriminately murder anyone who happens to be in the building at the time, ending his pathetic life. Doesn't even garner a headline on the Huffington Post. Forgotten two weeks later.
  - abrown28 17y ago
    Front page. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/austin-plane-crash-office_n_467264.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/austin-plane-crash-...
    - colinplamondon 17y ago
      Spoke too soon!
  - dangrossman 17y ago
    This is currently the only story the TV news networks are covering.
  - volomike 17y ago
    I tell you, I can be sympathetic to a letter such as his, to some of the things any of us can easily see are wrong right now in the USA, but of course I do not condone his extreme by any means. However, here was the kicker for me: "But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income". Let me get this straight -- he was in love and married. Forget all the money stuff, tax liens, unemployment, whatever it was. He was so in love that he just got married. And then what does he do? He pilots a plane into the IRS building. I also read somewhere that he burned his house down before doing that. It's probably anyone's guess that his wife was at work while all this was going on. So this troubles me that a man focuses so myopically on purity principles such as anti-corruption, that he would block out one of the purest principles at all, which is love.
markpercival 17y ago
The site was pulled down, here's the copy of the rant: If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures. We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse. While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say. Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in. And justice? You’ve got to be kidding! How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is. How did I get here? My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done. The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country. That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them. Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer. On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age. The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on. In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself. Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706. For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeRe...) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml). SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. (a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection: (d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986. Note: · "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship. · "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop. · "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you. Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes. During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients. After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect. Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back. Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement. Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings. By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies. To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice. So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake. When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me. This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around. I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution. As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough. I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along. I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well. The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. Joe Stack (1956-2010) 02/18/2010
dkarl 17y ago
Tragically naive, but naive in a self-serving and narcissistic way. Childish, I guess one would say. Hard to sympathize with for that reason. It's one thing to take a naive and idealistic look at government with the intent of improving it; it's another thing to take that approach to your own taxes.
- wartaxresistor 17y ago
  What would you think of germans that tried to weasel out of paying their fair share during the nazi years? Naive and narcissistic? I guess the real deal is if you're not going to pay your taxes, or otherwise chisel/wiggle, just do it. Don't brag about it. Keep cash around, have people you trust for title to cars and property, and generally be prepared to live low on the food chain. The key to happiness is low expectation, which clearly the author of the article didn't have.
natrius 17y ago
It looks like the note was originally found by a redditor who Googled the guy's name after it was released: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b3nte/plane_crashes_into_building_in_austin_texas/c0ksdo8?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b3nte/plane_cras...
lliiffee 17y ago
I urge everyone not to read this. We should not reward murderers (or attempted murderers) with out attention.
- mbrubeck 17y ago
  Fortunately - and not surprisingly - it's barely readable anyways. I read most of it and I still don't have a clear picture of what made this guy so mad. [Edit: While I don't agree with lliiffee, I think it's a valid point of view and I wouldn't vote it down. I wavered between wanting to understand this person's state of mind, and not wanting to "reward" him with attention. But even if he were alive I don't think he'd get any satisfaction from people's reactions to this meaningless, incoherent screed.]
  - wartaxresistor 17y ago
    and yet when a president makes a state of the union address.......
  - BigZaphod 17y ago
    It sounded to me like he made a lot of really stupid money choices in his life and blamed all his losses on the IRS, the government, and anyone else of "power" that happened to be nearby at the time rather than taking personal responsibility and manning up.
    - petercooper 17y ago
      I think his distaste was that when he made some mistakes, he got caught and shafted by arcane laws, yet when some richer folks deliberately committed fraud, the government barely did anything about it or rejigged the laws for them.
      - BigZaphod 17y ago
        I'm in no way condoning fraud or corruption or entitlement or whatever, but I think the reason "the rich" often appear to get away with a lot more stuff than "the rest of us" is because, in some sense, as much as you might not like to admit it, they did somehow became rich - and that usually involves years of work and contributions to society either by the person him/herself or their family. So, in some small sense, being rich is a sign of having done something significantly important or useful at some point in their history, and so maybe they are worthy of more benefit of the doubt because of that? Maybe being rich is like a credit against future mistakes? Maybe it shouldn't be that way - but it seems kind of like it is. Perhaps this is some second order effect of humanity itself.
btipling 17y ago
cache removed at google but bing still has it: http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22embeddedart+com%22&d=300636768106&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=14b2d29e,6b966fab http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22embeddedart+com%22&d...
tlrobinson 17y ago
What are people's thoughts on the hosting company pulling the site so quickly at the request of the FBI? Would they legally be required to? IANAL but I can't think of any reason.
- BigZaphod 17y ago
  I certainly can't say I know the law in this respect. His rant did include the names of a few people which could possibly be bad for them, but it's too late now - it was posted online, cached by lots of spiders, copied by lots of people... Pulling it down now doesn't seem like it'd much matter.
  - CoryMathews 17y ago
    cnn even has a copy posted on their site.
  - nihilocrat 17y ago
    Taking it down anyways does, however, show that they explicitly disagree that the information should be published for the reasons you state.
  - Vivtek 17y ago
    They have a link to the copy at the Smoking Gun, right where it's down; I'd say this was a question of keeping the FBI happy without actually impeding the flow of information.
- eli 17y ago
  I suspect they were not legally obligated to take it down (without a court order or a National Security Letter, anyway). But they also, of course, had no obligation to keep it up. I'd probably take it down if I worked there.
  - bsaunder 17y ago
    And if had my servers hosted there, I might consider moving them.
blackguardx 17y ago
The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even has an IRS hate manifesto. I think it is a shame that the government uses certain words to its advantage, but I guess propaganda is just the nature of the beast.
- smokinn 17y ago
  I tend to agree with the cynic in me that says it's because the guy's name was "Joe Stack". Had it been Mohammed something then it would've been terrorism.
  - CoryMathews 17y ago
    Agree, The way I see it is that if its a criminal act against the government it because terrorism. Had he been out to kill someone in that building it would have been a criminal act. This was terrorism.
    - grandalf 17y ago
      Why is it terrorism? Are you now living in terror that it will happen again?
      - mos1 17y ago
        By that definition there are pretty much no terrorists, anywhere. I'm not in a state of terror about Osama, are you?
        grandalf 17y ago
        I'd argue that terrorism is largely a term to describe an opponent whose tactics go beyond what its adversary's population regards as appropriate... and so the term is mostly intended to marginalize an opponent and paint him and his cause as morally bankrupt. The term can be used to describe asymmetrical warfare techniques whose objective is more to motivate fear in the target population than to achieve a classic military objective, but if you think about it, the neighbor kid being sent home from the front lines in a body bag also has that effect, albeit a bit more indirectly. I think by definition an asymmetrical conflict that doesn't result in the weaker side quitting outright must include some sort of different moral standard about things like civilian life, soldier sacrifice, etc.
wrs 17y ago
If he couldn't pay back taxes on $13K, I'm curious how he acquired the plane.
- CoryMathews 17y ago
  stolen.
  - brandon272 17y ago
    Not according to reports.
    - eli 17y ago
      Initial reports said it was stolen, actually, but it seems they've taken that back.
    - CoryMathews 17y ago
      thats what they had said earlier I guess it has changed.
  - towndrunk 17y ago
    It was not stolen.
- jey 17y ago
  Rental? He still would've had to have a pilot's cert, which costs about $6-10k USD to acquire.
adolphwhitney 17y ago
The next guy that does this will learn from his predecessor's mistakes, and use a bigger plane.
- pavel_lishin 17y ago
  And write a shorter rant.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    Or at least a clearer rant. I was surprised at how well written Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" was. I don't like that he got it published by mailing people bombs until the New York Times promised to publish it, but it's still worth reading.
    - lmkg 17y ago
      I doubt any future rants will get clearer. Rants of these types are big, sprawling, disconnected tales of tragedy and woe with the point heavily obfuscated or altogether absent. This makes it very easy for other people will similar unbalances, but possibly unrelated motives, to write their own motives into the gaps. The problem is, to these types of readers, their own motives are blindingly obvious in what they're reading, so they don't even perceive the lack of clarity that you and I do. They can just hold it up and say "this is exactly what I've been saying!" not because the post says anything, but because it doesn't. It's big and empty, which makes it a great echo chamber.
Femur 17y ago
I think it is interesting that the IRS treats certain workers differently: "This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work." (this was cited in the letter)
- icey 17y ago
  Here's a little bit of background about that provision: http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/25870.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/25870.html
  - kelnos 17y ago
    I'm highly amused that the last name of the guy who wrote that piece is "Henchman."
- brown9-2 17y ago
  To be fair, it's not that the IRS has decided to treat these workers differently, it's that Congress has instructed them to through the laws it has passed.
vaksel 17y ago
apparently the "site" was written in Office 2000, at least according to the HTML file
Sukotto 17y ago
Also archived here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack...
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
tc 17y ago
Problems that this creates: 1) Because of how governments deal in collective punishment, private aviation is likely to suffer further regulatory decimation even though events of this type are extremely rare, statistically speaking. 2) His rambling, narcissistic screed will be broadcast widely, and his immature and senseless actions used to paint those with legitimate and sensible criticisms of our tax system or systems of governance.
- _delirium 17y ago
  The reaction might change, but I'm mainly seeing the opposite effect on #2 so far: there seems to be a sympathetic undercurrent of "collusion of big-government IRS and greedy corporate capitalists drove hardworking man to kill himself" in some of the coverage.
  - kelnos 17y ago
    I can't help but be swayed somewhat myself. While I can't agree with his methods, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lot of truth in his message.
- jcromartie 17y ago
  > rambling, narcissistic screed Maybe to you. Most of his rant just sounded honest and true to me.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Maybe you are a rambling narcissist?
    - jcromartie 17y ago
      Maybe. Then again, maybe extreme actions cause people to unconsciously try to discredit the beliefs (no matter how rational) behind those actions to distance themselves from being exposed to uncomfortable truths.
moron4hire 17y ago
I find it laughable that he suggests that the solution to this problem is somehow Communism.
- madair 17y ago
  That's not what he says. He just quotes the creed in order to play off of it regarding capitalism.
  - moron4hire 17y ago
    and that would be why I said "suggests".
    - delackner 17y ago
      Except that without any editorial text accompanying the two quotes, two readings are possible: "here's the motto of a good system and a bad system," OR: "everyone's heard of the moronic motto of this system, but the current system is just terrible in its own different way." Reading the whole thing my impression was that the second interpretation was what he was getting at.
chubbard 17y ago
Maybe he should've used google to do some research about how to avoid being classified as an employee. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30177.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30177.html
- viraptor 17y ago
  Wasn't that kind of his point? With guidelines like "Don't ask for instructions from the hiring firm about how to do your job." it's just silly and you never know on which side of the line you are currently... There's just no way to be sure and even if you are right, you might be notified too late to protest.
lsc 17y ago
I was considering going to SCALE this weekend, but maybe I'll take the train or not go after all. Like many people on HN, I am pretty close to the guy's profile. I've been negatively effected by SEC. 1706 - now, I'm far to cynical to think such things can be changed, and I'm not really the murder/suicide type but, uh, I certainly fit the profile.
jsz0 17y ago
I'm convinced that domestic terrorism is going to be a bigger problem over the next couple of decades than foreign attacks. The political discourse/tolerance in this country has gone downhill significantly even in my lifetime. I can only imagine at the extreme fringes these people have gone off the deep end. We see it over and over again. Probably the most disturbing sign of what to come is the 2008 election where the VP candidate for one of the two major parties was openly inciting hatred and smiling as people in the audience shouted horrible things.
- timdorr 17y ago
  How old are you? There's been plenty of political discourse all through time. That's how this country was founded and nearly split up. Just look at the 70's. I'm not that old and even I know how much protest was going on at that time. It's just that the fire is being fanned by mainstream media and the growth of the Internet, and that gives it more visibility than before. The Teabaggers are a perfect example of this.
wedesoft 17y ago
In 2008 somebody in Germany got fed up with the high taxes on fuel. He couldn't afford to run his business (which required a car) any more. So he parked the car on a lawn in the city centre of Frankfurt, wrote "Fuel Profiteering http://www.acidware.de/ http://www.acidware.de/ in big letters on it, and put it on fire. I just want to say that there are other routes to explore before taking it this far. http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,562570,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,562570,00.html
- Deestan 17y ago
  > I just want to say that there are other routes to explore before taking it this far. Yes, but they are much less effective. E.g., I have never ever heard of him or his protest before.
  - pyre 17y ago
    There aren't that many 24-hour cable news stations in Germany that are broadcast around the world in a language that a fair number of people internationally can speak.
- dmm 17y ago
  I would say that is an unlawful and violent act intended to influence a government or civilian population and therefore a terrorist act.
  - ovi256 17y ago
    Unauthorized protest ? Unlawful and possibly violent. Definitely trying to influence government and the civilian population. Therefore, terrorist. See how that goes ? The definition is so ambiguous it can be applied to anything.
    - wedesoft 17y ago
      As far as I know they fined him for pollution or something. He said that he had some clothes and a toothbrush with him because he expected to go to jail for this. But the police set him free on the same day. It would have been different if he had lit the fire on the road though.
mbrubeck 17y ago
So, was this related to the changes reported in today's front-page New York Times story, "U.S. Cracks Down on ‘Contractors’ as a Tax Dodge," or is the timing just a coincidence? "Federal and state officials, many facing record budget deficits, are starting to aggressively pursue companies that try to pass off regular employees as independent contractors. President Obama’s 2010 budget assumes that the federal crackdown will yield at least $7 billion over 10 years." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/business/18workers.html?em http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/business/18workers.html?em
robak 17y ago
USA consists a few oligarchs and a lot and lot of brainwashed sheep. Resembles feudal society. Masters and their slaves. How sad to see you guys becoming pathetic parodies of the values you used to represent.
tomlin 17y ago
This blog would hold no value if it were not pinned to this story of "terrorism". If you look deep and examine what is happening here, 106 comments later, you see that people are thinking. A great thing. Another question I stop to ask myself: His method was poor and for a lot of people that disqualifies his perspective. But should it?
saturnine 17y ago
I surmise his software ventures never succeeded because he hated the IRS more than he loved programming. In 1987 alone, he says, he spent at least 1000 hours railing against the tax code -- about 20 hours a week. His obsession with, and resentment of, the IRS started when he and others tried to create their own religious organization, ostensibly to draw attention to the capricious laws exempting religious organizations from taxes. How this plan was supposed to work is unclear. L. Ron Hubbard saw the same opportunity and was better at exploiting it. People don't respond well to acts of violence directed against them or those with whom they empathize. Timothy McVeigh's act caused shock and anger yet achieved nothing. Whatever message Stack wanted to convey has been utterly discredited by attempting to murder people going about their day. And if he wanted to give the government a way to dismiss him, he couldn't have made it any easier.
- cookiecaper 17y ago
  So what do people respond well to? I'm not seeing any changes even though the guy's sentiments are shared by many.
  - binspace 17y ago
    A conflict of some type is necessary to bring in change. The people who benefit from the tax code will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Luke warm sentiment will not change things.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
the discussions about the IRS employees reminds me of clerks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads how innocent are people who work for evil empires?
ninjac0der 17y ago
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how many people look down on these actions, but I am. No american is "innocent" when they legislate thievery so they can continue eating nachos while wanting to expense thier medical costs to the rest of us, have us pay for their poor judgment with money. Ignorance of the consequences isn't an excuse. Most Americans are vanilla enough that they never find themselves outside the american comfort zone, otherwise they would find just how small the room is. Cryptic and meaningless to most but I couldn't stand reading all of these other comments. Downvote away.
- jcromartie 17y ago
  > Most Americans are vanilla enough that they never find themselves outside the american comfort zone Most Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck (about 60% last I heard).
  - ninjac0der 17y ago
    Wonder how many of those still have cable TV. Give me a break. http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare/bg1713.cfm http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare/bg1713.cfm
    - jcromartie 17y ago
      Of course a conservative policy center will tell me that poor people are wasteful and/or lazy. However, the same Americans that are mostly living paycheck-to-paycheck are also the same Americans that work more hours than a lot of countries with much better situations. It's also not just about what you have... it's about where you can go and how far you are from outright financial ruin. In the US you are probably not mobile and probably just a serious illness or injury away from bankruptcy. It's not like the amount of the cable bill would go very far to pay for things that other civilized nations take for granted, like medical care and education.
      - ninjac0der 17y ago
        What do you think this even has to do with my original statement? People are in better situations in other countries because they support more of a welfare/legislative based system? Do you live there? Why not? "Of course a conservative policy center will tell me that poor people are wasteful and/or lazy." An excellent way to write off an opinion without consideration. Come back when you have a valid reason to write their numbers off (not that there isn't one, just don't parrot "conservative" or "republican" at me because that puts you in the majority of people who cite the same BS over-generalizations).
aohtsab 17y ago
I'm surprised that no one's commented on what Jon Stack was talking about — the laws affecting Indie Contractor's tax status. http://synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml http://synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml "20 Questions" of the IRS to determine status http://synergistech.com/20qs.shtml http://synergistech.com/20qs.shtml Has anyone had any trouble with this? As an early indie contractor, I'm pretty damn concerned about this.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
CulturalNgineer 17y ago
I can't justify his method of protest but have some understanding of his frustration... In behavioral economics there's the game called the "Ultimatum Game" Essentially it's when one side thinks the deal is so biased and unfair he'd rather tip over the board and have both get nothing than accept what he considers to be a rip-off offer. This guy decided to tip over the board... There's another concept in communication called "no acknowledgement"... which arise when you are trying to get someone's attention and they just don't seem to notice you're there... which causes people to essentially start pulling their hair out with frustration. SO... It makes sense for politicians to be very nervous about citizen anger over perceived favoritism to the wealthy... and feeling like they're not being listened to. This isn't political conclusion... It's a scientific one!
pkulak 17y ago
Sorry, buddy. Trying to kill people and destroy property doesn't get me to listen to you. I'm not going to read this.
grumpyfart 17y ago
How sad, one guy has guts to spend his life and others can't even keep a letter online.
mmilenko 17y ago
Not a single "Stack overflow" pun?

197 points by spudlyo 17y ago

PDF if the site goes down: http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~niran/joe_stack_note.pdf http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~ni... The site's been holding up surprisingly well. Not bad, T35 Hosting. EDIT: It looks like it's gone now. Here's the home.htm that was on the site as well: http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~niran/embeddedart_home.pdf http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://celes.niran.org/~ni...

spudlyo 17y ago
It helps that it's 33K of static HTML. Looks like it was converted from Word, some interesting metadata: <o:Author>Joe Stack</o:Author> <o:LastAuthor>Joe</o:LastAuthor> <o:Revision>27</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>1848</o:TotalTime> <o:Created>2010-02-16T19:24:00Z</o:Created> <o:LastSaved>2010-02-18T06:42:00Z</o:LastSaved>
- natrius 17y ago
  Most static pages still get pulled by hosting providers when faced with that kind of traffic. That might be what happened here, or the authorities could've asked them to pull it.
  - icefox 17y ago
    I could understand for dynamic pages, but static? Do they think they are getting attacked?
    - natrius 17y ago
      Accounts usually have bandwidth limits that get tripped by this sort of thing. 33 kB * millions of viewers = gigabytes of data.

nym 17y ago

Summary?

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
colinplamondon 17y ago
Guy dicks around with forces he doesn't have the free cash available to dick around with, blames IRS. Later finds himself losing work due to working in aerospace as Air Force bases are closed in the 90's, leading into 9/11 and a meltdown in his ability to generate personal revenue. Blames IRS. Runs out of money, blames IRS. Flies plain into IRS building with the intent to indiscriminately murder anyone who happens to be in the building at the time, ending his pathetic life. Doesn't even garner a headline on the Huffington Post. Forgotten two weeks later.
- abrown28 17y ago
  Front page. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/austin-plane-crash-office_n_467264.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/austin-plane-crash-...
  - colinplamondon 17y ago
    Spoke too soon!
- dangrossman 17y ago
  This is currently the only story the TV news networks are covering.
- volomike 17y ago
  I tell you, I can be sympathetic to a letter such as his, to some of the things any of us can easily see are wrong right now in the USA, but of course I do not condone his extreme by any means. However, here was the kicker for me: "But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income". Let me get this straight -- he was in love and married. Forget all the money stuff, tax liens, unemployment, whatever it was. He was so in love that he just got married. And then what does he do? He pilots a plane into the IRS building. I also read somewhere that he burned his house down before doing that. It's probably anyone's guess that his wife was at work while all this was going on. So this troubles me that a man focuses so myopically on purity principles such as anti-corruption, that he would block out one of the purest principles at all, which is love.

markpercival 17y ago

The site was pulled down, here's the copy of the rant: If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures. We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse. While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say. Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in. And justice? You’ve got to be kidding! How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is. How did I get here? My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done. The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country. That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them. Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer. On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age. The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on. In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself. Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706. For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeRe...) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml). SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL. (a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection: (d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986. Note: · "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship. · "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop. · "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you. Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes. During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients. After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect. Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back. Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement. Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings. By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies. To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice. So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake. When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me. This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around. I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution. As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws. I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough. I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along. I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well. The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. Joe Stack (1956-2010) 02/18/2010

dkarl 17y ago

Tragically naive, but naive in a self-serving and narcissistic way. Childish, I guess one would say. Hard to sympathize with for that reason. It's one thing to take a naive and idealistic look at government with the intent of improving it; it's another thing to take that approach to your own taxes.

wartaxresistor 17y ago
What would you think of germans that tried to weasel out of paying their fair share during the nazi years? Naive and narcissistic? I guess the real deal is if you're not going to pay your taxes, or otherwise chisel/wiggle, just do it. Don't brag about it. Keep cash around, have people you trust for title to cars and property, and generally be prepared to live low on the food chain. The key to happiness is low expectation, which clearly the author of the article didn't have.

natrius 17y ago

It looks like the note was originally found by a redditor who Googled the guy's name after it was released: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b3nte/plane_crashes_into_building_in_austin_texas/c0ksdo8?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b3nte/plane_cras...

lliiffee 17y ago

I urge everyone not to read this. We should not reward murderers (or attempted murderers) with out attention.

mbrubeck 17y ago
Fortunately - and not surprisingly - it's barely readable anyways. I read most of it and I still don't have a clear picture of what made this guy so mad. [Edit: While I don't agree with lliiffee, I think it's a valid point of view and I wouldn't vote it down. I wavered between wanting to understand this person's state of mind, and not wanting to "reward" him with attention. But even if he were alive I don't think he'd get any satisfaction from people's reactions to this meaningless, incoherent screed.]
- wartaxresistor 17y ago
  and yet when a president makes a state of the union address.......
- BigZaphod 17y ago
  It sounded to me like he made a lot of really stupid money choices in his life and blamed all his losses on the IRS, the government, and anyone else of "power" that happened to be nearby at the time rather than taking personal responsibility and manning up.
  - petercooper 17y ago
    I think his distaste was that when he made some mistakes, he got caught and shafted by arcane laws, yet when some richer folks deliberately committed fraud, the government barely did anything about it or rejigged the laws for them.
    - BigZaphod 17y ago
      I'm in no way condoning fraud or corruption or entitlement or whatever, but I think the reason "the rich" often appear to get away with a lot more stuff than "the rest of us" is because, in some sense, as much as you might not like to admit it, they did somehow became rich - and that usually involves years of work and contributions to society either by the person him/herself or their family. So, in some small sense, being rich is a sign of having done something significantly important or useful at some point in their history, and so maybe they are worthy of more benefit of the doubt because of that? Maybe being rich is like a credit against future mistakes? Maybe it shouldn't be that way - but it seems kind of like it is. Perhaps this is some second order effect of humanity itself.

btipling 17y ago

cache removed at google but bing still has it: http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22embeddedart+com%22&d=300636768106&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=14b2d29e,6b966fab http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22embeddedart+com%22&d...

tlrobinson 17y ago

What are people's thoughts on the hosting company pulling the site so quickly at the request of the FBI? Would they legally be required to? IANAL but I can't think of any reason.

BigZaphod 17y ago
I certainly can't say I know the law in this respect. His rant did include the names of a few people which could possibly be bad for them, but it's too late now - it was posted online, cached by lots of spiders, copied by lots of people... Pulling it down now doesn't seem like it'd much matter.
- CoryMathews 17y ago
  cnn even has a copy posted on their site.
- nihilocrat 17y ago
  Taking it down anyways does, however, show that they explicitly disagree that the information should be published for the reasons you state.
- Vivtek 17y ago
  They have a link to the copy at the Smoking Gun, right where it's down; I'd say this was a question of keeping the FBI happy without actually impeding the flow of information.
eli 17y ago
I suspect they were not legally obligated to take it down (without a court order or a National Security Letter, anyway). But they also, of course, had no obligation to keep it up. I'd probably take it down if I worked there.
- bsaunder 17y ago
  And if had my servers hosted there, I might consider moving them.

blackguardx 17y ago

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even has an IRS hate manifesto. I think it is a shame that the government uses certain words to its advantage, but I guess propaganda is just the nature of the beast.

smokinn 17y ago
I tend to agree with the cynic in me that says it's because the guy's name was "Joe Stack". Had it been Mohammed something then it would've been terrorism.
- CoryMathews 17y ago
  Agree, The way I see it is that if its a criminal act against the government it because terrorism. Had he been out to kill someone in that building it would have been a criminal act. This was terrorism.
  - grandalf 17y ago
    Why is it terrorism? Are you now living in terror that it will happen again?
    - mos1 17y ago
      By that definition there are pretty much no terrorists, anywhere. I'm not in a state of terror about Osama, are you?
      - grandalf 17y ago
        I'd argue that terrorism is largely a term to describe an opponent whose tactics go beyond what its adversary's population regards as appropriate... and so the term is mostly intended to marginalize an opponent and paint him and his cause as morally bankrupt. The term can be used to describe asymmetrical warfare techniques whose objective is more to motivate fear in the target population than to achieve a classic military objective, but if you think about it, the neighbor kid being sent home from the front lines in a body bag also has that effect, albeit a bit more indirectly. I think by definition an asymmetrical conflict that doesn't result in the weaker side quitting outright must include some sort of different moral standard about things like civilian life, soldier sacrifice, etc.

wrs 17y ago

If he couldn't pay back taxes on $13K, I'm curious how he acquired the plane.

CoryMathews 17y ago
stolen.
- brandon272 17y ago
  Not according to reports.
  - eli 17y ago
    Initial reports said it was stolen, actually, but it seems they've taken that back.
  - CoryMathews 17y ago
    thats what they had said earlier I guess it has changed.
- towndrunk 17y ago
  It was not stolen.
jey 17y ago
Rental? He still would've had to have a pilot's cert, which costs about $6-10k USD to acquire.

adolphwhitney 17y ago

The next guy that does this will learn from his predecessor's mistakes, and use a bigger plane.

pavel_lishin 17y ago
And write a shorter rant.
- philwelch 17y ago
  Or at least a clearer rant. I was surprised at how well written Kaczynski's "Industrial Society and its Future" was. I don't like that he got it published by mailing people bombs until the New York Times promised to publish it, but it's still worth reading.
  - lmkg 17y ago
    I doubt any future rants will get clearer. Rants of these types are big, sprawling, disconnected tales of tragedy and woe with the point heavily obfuscated or altogether absent. This makes it very easy for other people will similar unbalances, but possibly unrelated motives, to write their own motives into the gaps. The problem is, to these types of readers, their own motives are blindingly obvious in what they're reading, so they don't even perceive the lack of clarity that you and I do. They can just hold it up and say "this is exactly what I've been saying!" not because the post says anything, but because it doesn't. It's big and empty, which makes it a great echo chamber.

Femur 17y ago

I think it is interesting that the IRS treats certain workers differently: "This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work." (this was cited in the letter)

icey 17y ago
Here's a little bit of background about that provision: http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/25870.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/25870.html
- kelnos 17y ago
  I'm highly amused that the last name of the guy who wrote that piece is "Henchman."
brown9-2 17y ago
To be fair, it's not that the IRS has decided to treat these workers differently, it's that Congress has instructed them to through the laws it has passed.

vaksel 17y ago

apparently the "site" was written in Office 2000, at least according to the HTML file

Sukotto 17y ago

Also archived here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack...

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

tc 17y ago

Problems that this creates: 1) Because of how governments deal in collective punishment, private aviation is likely to suffer further regulatory decimation even though events of this type are extremely rare, statistically speaking. 2) His rambling, narcissistic screed will be broadcast widely, and his immature and senseless actions used to paint those with legitimate and sensible criticisms of our tax system or systems of governance.

_delirium 17y ago
The reaction might change, but I'm mainly seeing the opposite effect on #2 so far: there seems to be a sympathetic undercurrent of "collusion of big-government IRS and greedy corporate capitalists drove hardworking man to kill himself" in some of the coverage.
- kelnos 17y ago
  I can't help but be swayed somewhat myself. While I can't agree with his methods, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lot of truth in his message.
jcromartie 17y ago
> rambling, narcissistic screed Maybe to you. Most of his rant just sounded honest and true to me.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Maybe you are a rambling narcissist?
  - jcromartie 17y ago
    Maybe. Then again, maybe extreme actions cause people to unconsciously try to discredit the beliefs (no matter how rational) behind those actions to distance themselves from being exposed to uncomfortable truths.

moron4hire 17y ago

I find it laughable that he suggests that the solution to this problem is somehow Communism.

madair 17y ago
That's not what he says. He just quotes the creed in order to play off of it regarding capitalism.
- moron4hire 17y ago
  and that would be why I said "suggests".
  - delackner 17y ago
    Except that without any editorial text accompanying the two quotes, two readings are possible: "here's the motto of a good system and a bad system," OR: "everyone's heard of the moronic motto of this system, but the current system is just terrible in its own different way." Reading the whole thing my impression was that the second interpretation was what he was getting at.

chubbard 17y ago

Maybe he should've used google to do some research about how to avoid being classified as an employee. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30177.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30177.html

viraptor 17y ago
Wasn't that kind of his point? With guidelines like "Don't ask for instructions from the hiring firm about how to do your job." it's just silly and you never know on which side of the line you are currently... There's just no way to be sure and even if you are right, you might be notified too late to protest.

lsc 17y ago

I was considering going to SCALE this weekend, but maybe I'll take the train or not go after all. Like many people on HN, I am pretty close to the guy's profile. I've been negatively effected by SEC. 1706 - now, I'm far to cynical to think such things can be changed, and I'm not really the murder/suicide type but, uh, I certainly fit the profile.

jsz0 17y ago

I'm convinced that domestic terrorism is going to be a bigger problem over the next couple of decades than foreign attacks. The political discourse/tolerance in this country has gone downhill significantly even in my lifetime. I can only imagine at the extreme fringes these people have gone off the deep end. We see it over and over again. Probably the most disturbing sign of what to come is the 2008 election where the VP candidate for one of the two major parties was openly inciting hatred and smiling as people in the audience shouted horrible things.

timdorr 17y ago
How old are you? There's been plenty of political discourse all through time. That's how this country was founded and nearly split up. Just look at the 70's. I'm not that old and even I know how much protest was going on at that time. It's just that the fire is being fanned by mainstream media and the growth of the Internet, and that gives it more visibility than before. The Teabaggers are a perfect example of this.

wedesoft 17y ago

In 2008 somebody in Germany got fed up with the high taxes on fuel. He couldn't afford to run his business (which required a car) any more. So he parked the car on a lawn in the city centre of Frankfurt, wrote "Fuel Profiteering http://www.acidware.de/ http://www.acidware.de/ in big letters on it, and put it on fire. I just want to say that there are other routes to explore before taking it this far. http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,562570,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,562570,00.html

Deestan 17y ago
> I just want to say that there are other routes to explore before taking it this far. Yes, but they are much less effective. E.g., I have never ever heard of him or his protest before.
- pyre 17y ago
  There aren't that many 24-hour cable news stations in Germany that are broadcast around the world in a language that a fair number of people internationally can speak.
dmm 17y ago
I would say that is an unlawful and violent act intended to influence a government or civilian population and therefore a terrorist act.
- ovi256 17y ago
  Unauthorized protest ? Unlawful and possibly violent. Definitely trying to influence government and the civilian population. Therefore, terrorist. See how that goes ? The definition is so ambiguous it can be applied to anything.
  - wedesoft 17y ago
    As far as I know they fined him for pollution or something. He said that he had some clothes and a toothbrush with him because he expected to go to jail for this. But the police set him free on the same day. It would have been different if he had lit the fire on the road though.

mbrubeck 17y ago

So, was this related to the changes reported in today's front-page New York Times story, "U.S. Cracks Down on ‘Contractors’ as a Tax Dodge," or is the timing just a coincidence? "Federal and state officials, many facing record budget deficits, are starting to aggressively pursue companies that try to pass off regular employees as independent contractors. President Obama’s 2010 budget assumes that the federal crackdown will yield at least $7 billion over 10 years." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/business/18workers.html?em http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/business/18workers.html?em

robak 17y ago

USA consists a few oligarchs and a lot and lot of brainwashed sheep. Resembles feudal society. Masters and their slaves. How sad to see you guys becoming pathetic parodies of the values you used to represent.

tomlin 17y ago

This blog would hold no value if it were not pinned to this story of "terrorism". If you look deep and examine what is happening here, 106 comments later, you see that people are thinking. A great thing. Another question I stop to ask myself: His method was poor and for a lot of people that disqualifies his perspective. But should it?

saturnine 17y ago

I surmise his software ventures never succeeded because he hated the IRS more than he loved programming. In 1987 alone, he says, he spent at least 1000 hours railing against the tax code -- about 20 hours a week. His obsession with, and resentment of, the IRS started when he and others tried to create their own religious organization, ostensibly to draw attention to the capricious laws exempting religious organizations from taxes. How this plan was supposed to work is unclear. L. Ron Hubbard saw the same opportunity and was better at exploiting it. People don't respond well to acts of violence directed against them or those with whom they empathize. Timothy McVeigh's act caused shock and anger yet achieved nothing. Whatever message Stack wanted to convey has been utterly discredited by attempting to murder people going about their day. And if he wanted to give the government a way to dismiss him, he couldn't have made it any easier.

cookiecaper 17y ago
So what do people respond well to? I'm not seeing any changes even though the guy's sentiments are shared by many.
- binspace 17y ago
  A conflict of some type is necessary to bring in change. The people who benefit from the tax code will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. Luke warm sentiment will not change things.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

the discussions about the IRS employees reminds me of clerks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lzEhoXads how innocent are people who work for evil empires?

ninjac0der 17y ago

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how many people look down on these actions, but I am. No american is "innocent" when they legislate thievery so they can continue eating nachos while wanting to expense thier medical costs to the rest of us, have us pay for their poor judgment with money. Ignorance of the consequences isn't an excuse. Most Americans are vanilla enough that they never find themselves outside the american comfort zone, otherwise they would find just how small the room is. Cryptic and meaningless to most but I couldn't stand reading all of these other comments. Downvote away.

jcromartie 17y ago
> Most Americans are vanilla enough that they never find themselves outside the american comfort zone Most Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck (about 60% last I heard).
- ninjac0der 17y ago
  Wonder how many of those still have cable TV. Give me a break. http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare/bg1713.cfm http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare/bg1713.cfm
  - jcromartie 17y ago
    Of course a conservative policy center will tell me that poor people are wasteful and/or lazy. However, the same Americans that are mostly living paycheck-to-paycheck are also the same Americans that work more hours than a lot of countries with much better situations. It's also not just about what you have... it's about where you can go and how far you are from outright financial ruin. In the US you are probably not mobile and probably just a serious illness or injury away from bankruptcy. It's not like the amount of the cable bill would go very far to pay for things that other civilized nations take for granted, like medical care and education.
    - ninjac0der 17y ago
      What do you think this even has to do with my original statement? People are in better situations in other countries because they support more of a welfare/legislative based system? Do you live there? Why not? "Of course a conservative policy center will tell me that poor people are wasteful and/or lazy." An excellent way to write off an opinion without consideration. Come back when you have a valid reason to write their numbers off (not that there isn't one, just don't parrot "conservative" or "republican" at me because that puts you in the majority of people who cite the same BS over-generalizations).

aohtsab 17y ago

I'm surprised that no one's commented on what Jon Stack was talking about — the laws affecting Indie Contractor's tax status. http://synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml http://synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml "20 Questions" of the IRS to determine status http://synergistech.com/20qs.shtml http://synergistech.com/20qs.shtml Has anyone had any trouble with this? As an early indie contractor, I'm pretty damn concerned about this.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

CulturalNgineer 17y ago

I can't justify his method of protest but have some understanding of his frustration... In behavioral economics there's the game called the "Ultimatum Game" Essentially it's when one side thinks the deal is so biased and unfair he'd rather tip over the board and have both get nothing than accept what he considers to be a rip-off offer. This guy decided to tip over the board... There's another concept in communication called "no acknowledgement"... which arise when you are trying to get someone's attention and they just don't seem to notice you're there... which causes people to essentially start pulling their hair out with frustration. SO... It makes sense for politicians to be very nervous about citizen anger over perceived favoritism to the wealthy... and feeling like they're not being listened to. This isn't political conclusion... It's a scientific one!

pkulak 17y ago

Sorry, buddy. Trying to kill people and destroy property doesn't get me to listen to you. I'm not going to read this.

grumpyfart 17y ago

How sad, one guy has guts to spend his life and others can't even keep a letter online.

mmilenko 17y ago

Not a single "Stack overflow" pun?