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I've been to a restaurant that totally eliminated tipping in SF (Zazie in Cole Valley). They really, truly eliminated it, there isn't even a line for an "extra

by geebee 11y ago

I've been to a restaurant that totally eliminated tipping in SF (Zazie in Cole Valley). They really, truly eliminated it, there isn't even a line for an "extra" tip if you feel like leaving one, and there is an explanation on the bill that they really have done away with tips. The price on the menu is the price they charge (there is still tax, of course). Honestly, I loved it. It makes me want to go back. Worrying about how much to tip has always been a vaguely unpleasant ritual for me. It's not that I don't want to pay for good food and service, I am more than happy to pay for good service and food, I certainly don't expect anyone to work for free or poor wages. I just really found it refreshing to simply be charged the price that was quoted on the menu. Unfortunately, eliminating tipping can be complicated, and evidently can also lead to a higher tax bill… http://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Eliminating-tips-brings-unintended-consequences-6731265.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Eliminating-tips-bri...

FireBeyond 11y ago
"Unfortunately, eliminating tipping can be complicated, and evidently can also lead to a higher tax bill…" Any time on many forums where this is brought up a cadre of 'service industry staff' will show up and trot out lines about how they are "legally required to pay tax on a certain amount of tips, even if that's not what they make", when the reality is that "if they make less than that they should be able to show it" (and even that's not a perfect science, and still errs on the side of the server) by virtue of bank deposits (you can still keep some cash on the side). But that "seems like a lot of work" to those people - why should they have to expend effort to document their (lack of) income in order to minimize their expected tax? Nope... while service industry work is rarely glamorous, it's not that horrific. Unsurprisingly, those same people can often be found mocking people's ideas of tipping - apparently according to them, you should be expecting to tip 25% as a baseline these days... huh. So if I go to Red Robin and my partner and I have a drink or two, and our bill comes out to about $60, and you have four other tables, all doing something similar, and we are there for about an hour, maybe a little more, you should be picking up $60-75/hr for tips? Huh. But "if you tip 15% or less, then I am actually having to pay to serve you because I have to tip out all these people no matter what tips I actually get, and the IRS demands I pay taxes on all these tips even if I make less"... The reality is there's no requirement like that from the IRS - there's a base expectation, and if you can't provide documentation that you made less, that's what you'll be taxed. I wonder how many of these same servers provide that same documentation when they make -more- than the base?
marklyon 11y ago
I'm not going to deal with the paywall, but is the "higher tax bill" the result of "actually paying taxes on your income"? If so, I'm not sympathetic.
- geebee 11y ago
  I didn't realize there was a paywall. But based on the above comment, it does appear some of this may be manipulation.

by geebee 11y ago

FireBeyond 11y ago

"Unfortunately, eliminating tipping can be complicated, and evidently can also lead to a higher tax bill…" Any time on many forums where this is brought up a cadre of 'service industry staff' will show up and trot out lines about how they are "legally required to pay tax on a certain amount of tips, even if that's not what they make", when the reality is that "if they make less than that they should be able to show it" (and even that's not a perfect science, and still errs on the side of the server) by virtue of bank deposits (you can still keep some cash on the side). But that "seems like a lot of work" to those people - why should they have to expend effort to document their (lack of) income in order to minimize their expected tax? Nope... while service industry work is rarely glamorous, it's not that horrific. Unsurprisingly, those same people can often be found mocking people's ideas of tipping - apparently according to them, you should be expecting to tip 25% as a baseline these days... huh. So if I go to Red Robin and my partner and I have a drink or two, and our bill comes out to about $60, and you have four other tables, all doing something similar, and we are there for about an hour, maybe a little more, you should be picking up $60-75/hr for tips? Huh. But "if you tip 15% or less, then I am actually having to pay to serve you because I have to tip out all these people no matter what tips I actually get, and the IRS demands I pay taxes on all these tips even if I make less"... The reality is there's no requirement like that from the IRS - there's a base expectation, and if you can't provide documentation that you made less, that's what you'll be taxed. I wonder how many of these same servers provide that same documentation when they make -more- than the base?

marklyon 11y ago

I'm not going to deal with the paywall, but is the "higher tax bill" the result of "actually paying taxes on your income"? If so, I'm not sympathetic.

geebee 11y ago
I didn't realize there was a paywall. But based on the above comment, it does appear some of this may be manipulation.