3 ms·

> you all have apocryphal stories of the youngsters being disadvantaged. The big disadvantage is for youngsters is being utterly unemployed. Notice that in pla

> you all have apocryphal stories of the youngsters being disadvantaged. The big disadvantage is for youngsters is being utterly unemployed. Notice that in places like highly-unionized France youth unemployment is something like 25%+. That's not apocryphal, that's we-got-tons-of-data.

bsder 11y ago
And in the US we're finding the same percentages as older workers replace younger workers in jobs like food services that traditionally employed younger kids. We also have lots of stories of H1-B's replacing workers even in the youthful age brackets. That's the sort of thing that seniority rules also prevent. It ain't unions causing the problems. You would do well to cogitate on the real causes instead of just swallowing the anti-union propaganda.
- VanillaLime 11y ago
  The youth unemployment rate in the US is around 10 percent. I'd say a two and a half times difference is pretty significant. Would you rather move to San Francisco or Paris straight out of college? Which you do think has better career prospects? Do you think that has anything to do with the extreme difficulty of hiring and firing workers in France?
  - bsder 11y ago
    Yet, if I look here: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7197743/3-01032016-AP-EN.pdf/d91b795a-f165-4a39-a961-1ae07d6c4b13 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7197743/3-010... One of the most unionized countries (Germany) has one of the lowest unemployment rates. So, apparently the issue isn't unions. > Would you rather move to San Francisco or Paris straight out of college? Unfortunately, THAT ISN'T AN OPTION. Immigration policies specifically block the ability to do that. And, personally, if I did have the option, I suspect going to Berlin and joining the union is the best option.
- tracker1 11y ago
  I just want to clarify, that I'm not against unionizing or collective bargaining... it's part of capitalism at work. I just wanted to point out that seniority really doesn't mean anything in and of itself.

bsder 11y ago

And in the US we're finding the same percentages as older workers replace younger workers in jobs like food services that traditionally employed younger kids. We also have lots of stories of H1-B's replacing workers even in the youthful age brackets. That's the sort of thing that seniority rules also prevent. It ain't unions causing the problems. You would do well to cogitate on the real causes instead of just swallowing the anti-union propaganda.

VanillaLime 11y ago
The youth unemployment rate in the US is around 10 percent. I'd say a two and a half times difference is pretty significant. Would you rather move to San Francisco or Paris straight out of college? Which you do think has better career prospects? Do you think that has anything to do with the extreme difficulty of hiring and firing workers in France?
- bsder 11y ago
  Yet, if I look here: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7197743/3-01032016-AP-EN.pdf/d91b795a-f165-4a39-a961-1ae07d6c4b13 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7197743/3-010... One of the most unionized countries (Germany) has one of the lowest unemployment rates. So, apparently the issue isn't unions. > Would you rather move to San Francisco or Paris straight out of college? Unfortunately, THAT ISN'T AN OPTION. Immigration policies specifically block the ability to do that. And, personally, if I did have the option, I suspect going to Berlin and joining the union is the best option.
tracker1 11y ago
I just want to clarify, that I'm not against unionizing or collective bargaining... it's part of capitalism at work. I just wanted to point out that seniority really doesn't mean anything in and of itself.