4 ms·

> the people who do all the work and make none of the decisions are always to blame A union is NOT just a bunch of ordinary hardworking employees with no powe

> the people who do all the work and make none of the decisions are always to blame A union is NOT just a bunch of ordinary hardworking employees with no power. A union also has a leadership apparatus, and for the larger unions this can be huge, with dozens of full-time employees. Such leadership apparatus may use the union dues that they collect to engage in extensive lobbying efforts, especially when it's a government employees union. If that's the case the unions' campaign contributions are at least as much to blame as, say, an arbitrary corporation or billionaire with similar spending volumes. Or if we want to talk "prison" specifically we could talk about the Teamsters and Jimmy Hoffa's organized crime ties. > it seems perceptions have been heavily skewed against labor for a very long time. Just recently I came across a curious article estimating that some astonishingly low percentage of US union members (<10% IIRC) had actually ever voted in favor of the union that they're in. I wonder if there are relevancy issues. (Certainly any tenure-based organization has some amount of relevancy issues with younger members.)

calibraxis 11y ago
Right-wing unions aren't the only kind. Take the IWW, which is quite anarchist: "They are known for the Wobbly Shop model of workplace democracy, in which workers elect their managers and other forms of grassroots democracy (self-management) are implemented. IWW membership does not require that one work in a represented workplace, nor does it exclude membership in another labor union." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_Worl...) Obviously, corporations and governments support right-wing unions. Which they then attack after successfully coopting any threat of workplace democracy.
st3v3r 11y ago
If you want to talk about Hoffa and organized crime ties, why don't we talk about strikebusters, many of whom were cops? Hell, why don't we talk about Enron, or any number of companies who have committed crimes? I guarantee that if you tried to compare corruption done by unions and that done by corporations, corporations would have more by a landslide.
- fennecfoxen 11y ago
  Sure, we can talk about all these things. Nothing says I can't be skeptical of corporations and unions... and government, for that matter... all at once!

calibraxis 11y ago

Right-wing unions aren't the only kind. Take the IWW, which is quite anarchist: "They are known for the Wobbly Shop model of workplace democracy, in which workers elect their managers and other forms of grassroots democracy (self-management) are implemented. IWW membership does not require that one work in a represented workplace, nor does it exclude membership in another labor union." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_Worl...) Obviously, corporations and governments support right-wing unions. Which they then attack after successfully coopting any threat of workplace democracy.

st3v3r 11y ago

If you want to talk about Hoffa and organized crime ties, why don't we talk about strikebusters, many of whom were cops? Hell, why don't we talk about Enron, or any number of companies who have committed crimes? I guarantee that if you tried to compare corruption done by unions and that done by corporations, corporations would have more by a landslide.

fennecfoxen 11y ago
Sure, we can talk about all these things. Nothing says I can't be skeptical of corporations and unions... and government, for that matter... all at once!