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See Donglegate.

by f0code 11y ago

See Donglegate.

parenthephobia 11y ago
Since you're apparently talking about how unreasonable LambdaConf's code of conduct is, "donglegate" seems totally irrelevant given that it didn't involve the consequences of violating any conference's code of conduct, much less this one. "Donglegate" involved person a being offended by what another person said whilst at a conference, and somebody else - not the conference organizer, or indeed anyone at the conference at all - punishing the person who caused offence.
- f0code 11y ago
  They were reported to staff, who escorted them to a private area to shame them for saying something that someone found offensive. You don't see that as having a chilling effect?
  - parenthephobia 11y ago
    You're moving the goalposts. Donglegate isn't about conference staff having a quiet word with people in private. It's about one person getting fired for offending another, and that person eventually getting fired because of community lacklash. If all that had happened was that somebody got offended, privately told a staff member, and then the person causing offence had been privately spoken to - which is what the PyCon code of conduct required - we would never have heard about it. Now, the possibility that the offendee might shame me publicly and cause me to get fired might have a chilling effect. But that's nothing to do with codes of conduct. If anything, publicly shaming somebody that offends you would be in violation of the code.
    - f0code 11y ago
      No, I'm not. If anything, you're splitting hairs. Your assertion was "You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle." The guys in donglegate did none of those things, and yet they were in fact reported to staff. Over private words. My point is that you never know what is going to offend someone. This CoC says that you agree to be removed from the premises if someone gets offended, provided they are of proper minority status, which in itself invalidates the whole idea that this is a non-political CoC.
      - st3v3r 11y ago
        One could argue that the guys in Donglegate did belittle and sterotype based on their tasteless jokes.
        13thLetter 11y ago
        If one did that one would, of course, be wrong, both in the general case (the jokes were silly grade-school level puns that would concern no well-balanced person) and the specific case (if anyone was being stereotyped or belittled, it would be males, given that they were telling the jokes about a male presenter.)
        st3v3r 11y ago
        Why? The "jokes" were clearly in bad taste, and meant to belittle women.
        13thLetter 11y ago
        > Why? The "jokes" were clearly in bad taste, and meant to belittle women. Can you quote the jokes and explain how they were meant to belittle women?
        f0code 11y ago
        This is exactly the point I'm making. Their problem was that they spoke aloud in a manner that does not properly reflect the sensibilities of someone they weren't even addressing. EDIT: Herein lies the rub, and some might say the whole purpose behind CoC's. As a cop might say, you might beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride. Even if you've been tried by event staff for wrongspeak and found innocent, your whole experience is ruined.
      - parenthephobia 11y ago
        (That was a different poster's assertion.) The code actually says that you agree to be removed if you "wantonly behave in a manner inconsistent with" it, and only one of the paragraphs mentioned minorities: they chose to lead with a general requirement to treat others with respect, dignity and empathy, regardless of who they are. This is not a code of conduct designed to punish accidental "thought crime" against minorities: it is designed to prevent intentionally or recklessly offensive behaviour towards any and all conference attendees.
  - johnbm 11y ago
    Far worse. You, like many others, miss the most important part of DongleGate. She shamed the supposed dongle-joke offender on Twitter with their picture, which was unambiguously against the Code of Conduct, for it bans harassing photography. She did not only fail to see the hypocrisy, her actions were deemed heroic and she compared herself to Joan of Arc. This was a clear sign to anyone paying attention that Codes of Conduct were never about policing behavior objectively, but instead were to be wielded as a weapon to shame and attack particular groups of people based on a political ideology of victimhood.

See Donglegate.

by f0code 11y ago

See Donglegate.

Since you're apparently talking about how unreasonable LambdaConf's code of conduct is, "donglegate" seems totally irrelevant given that it didn't involve the consequences of violating any conference's code of conduct, much less this one. "Donglegate" involved person a being offended by what another person said whilst at a conference, and somebody else - not the conference organizer, or indeed anyone at the conference at all - punishing the person who caused offence.

f0code 11y ago
They were reported to staff, who escorted them to a private area to shame them for saying something that someone found offensive. You don't see that as having a chilling effect?
- parenthephobia 11y ago
  You're moving the goalposts. Donglegate isn't about conference staff having a quiet word with people in private. It's about one person getting fired for offending another, and that person eventually getting fired because of community lacklash. If all that had happened was that somebody got offended, privately told a staff member, and then the person causing offence had been privately spoken to - which is what the PyCon code of conduct required - we would never have heard about it. Now, the possibility that the offendee might shame me publicly and cause me to get fired might have a chilling effect. But that's nothing to do with codes of conduct. If anything, publicly shaming somebody that offends you would be in violation of the code.
  - f0code 11y ago
    No, I'm not. If anything, you're splitting hairs. Your assertion was "You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle." The guys in donglegate did none of those things, and yet they were in fact reported to staff. Over private words. My point is that you never know what is going to offend someone. This CoC says that you agree to be removed from the premises if someone gets offended, provided they are of proper minority status, which in itself invalidates the whole idea that this is a non-political CoC.
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      One could argue that the guys in Donglegate did belittle and sterotype based on their tasteless jokes.
      - 13thLetter 11y ago
        If one did that one would, of course, be wrong, both in the general case (the jokes were silly grade-school level puns that would concern no well-balanced person) and the specific case (if anyone was being stereotyped or belittled, it would be males, given that they were telling the jokes about a male presenter.)
        st3v3r 11y ago
        Why? The "jokes" were clearly in bad taste, and meant to belittle women.
        13thLetter 11y ago
        > Why? The "jokes" were clearly in bad taste, and meant to belittle women. Can you quote the jokes and explain how they were meant to belittle women?
      - f0code 11y ago
        This is exactly the point I'm making. Their problem was that they spoke aloud in a manner that does not properly reflect the sensibilities of someone they weren't even addressing. EDIT: Herein lies the rub, and some might say the whole purpose behind CoC's. As a cop might say, you might beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride. Even if you've been tried by event staff for wrongspeak and found innocent, your whole experience is ruined.
    - parenthephobia 11y ago
      (That was a different poster's assertion.) The code actually says that you agree to be removed if you "wantonly behave in a manner inconsistent with" it, and only one of the paragraphs mentioned minorities: they chose to lead with a general requirement to treat others with respect, dignity and empathy, regardless of who they are. This is not a code of conduct designed to punish accidental "thought crime" against minorities: it is designed to prevent intentionally or recklessly offensive behaviour towards any and all conference attendees.
- johnbm 11y ago
  Far worse. You, like many others, miss the most important part of DongleGate. She shamed the supposed dongle-joke offender on Twitter with their picture, which was unambiguously against the Code of Conduct, for it bans harassing photography. She did not only fail to see the hypocrisy, her actions were deemed heroic and she compared herself to Joan of Arc. This was a clear sign to anyone paying attention that Codes of Conduct were never about policing behavior objectively, but instead were to be wielded as a weapon to shame and attack particular groups of people based on a political ideology of victimhood.