4 ms·

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minor

by f0code 11y ago

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;" So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior in this pledge. My allowed attendance would be contingent on remaining silent the entire time on premises.

sthatipamala 11y ago
No, one member of such a group is also bound to conduct themselves relative to members of another such group. One way that one could attend is to not say offensive things. Yes, anything could be offensive and you have no way of knowing a priori. But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out.
- f0code 11y ago
  A reasonable person doesn't need to be told to be respectful.
- protomyth 11y ago
  "But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out." We have two articles on the front page condemning a two second soundbite at a keynote which was vetted by one of the most image conscious companies on the planet. I don't think your statement is true. If a code of conduct does not treat everyone as equals then it sets up a dynamic that will cause some group of people to shutdown and not participate.
groby_b 11y ago
You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle. It's contingent on actual behavior. Which was kind of the point of the whole article.
- f0code 11y ago
  See Donglegate.
  - parenthephobia 11y ago
    Since you're apparently talking about how unreasonable LambdaConf's code of conduct is, "donglegate" seems totally irrelevant given that it didn't involve the consequences of violating any conference's code of conduct, much less this one. "Donglegate" involved person a being offended by what another person said whilst at a conference, and somebody else - not the conference organizer, or indeed anyone at the conference at all - punishing the person who caused offence.
    - f0code 11y ago
      They were reported to staff, who escorted them to a private area to shame them for saying something that someone found offensive. You don't see that as having a chilling effect?
      - parenthephobia 11y ago
        You're moving the goalposts. Donglegate isn't about conference staff having a quiet word with people in private. It's about one person getting fired for offending another, and that person eventually getting fired because of community lacklash. If all that had happened was that somebody got offended, privately told a staff member, and then the person causing offence had been privately spoken to - which is what the PyCon code of conduct required - we would never have heard about it. Now, the possibility that the offendee might shame me publicly and cause me to get fired might have a chilling effect. But that's nothing to do with codes of conduct. If anything, publicly shaming somebody that offends you would be in violation of the code.
        f0code 11y ago
        No, I'm not. If anything, you're splitting hairs. Your assertion was "You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle." The guys in donglegate did none of those things, and yet they were in fact reported to staff. Over private words. My point is that you never know what is going to offend someone. This CoC says that you agree to be removed from the premises if someone gets offended, provided they are of proper minority status, which in itself invalidates the whole idea that this is a non-political CoC.
st3v3r 11y ago
"My allowed attendance would be contingent on remaining silent the entire time on premises." Only if you are incapable of acting like an adult human being. As someone who is also a member of the majority, I would find no problem in being able to follow the rules, because I can behave like an adult.
- f0code 11y ago
  That is already expected of people. Why do we need to take a pledge before going to hear some people talk about code?
  - greenrd 11y ago
    If it's already what you feel is expected of you, why object to agreeing to it?
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    Because people like you claim that you'd never be able to speak, implying that you cannot act like an adult in public.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Are you aware of the concept of "intersectionality"? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality )

by f0code 11y ago

sthatipamala 11y ago

No, one member of such a group is also bound to conduct themselves relative to members of another such group. One way that one could attend is to not say offensive things. Yes, anything could be offensive and you have no way of knowing a priori. But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out.

f0code 11y ago
A reasonable person doesn't need to be told to be respectful.
protomyth 11y ago
"But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out." We have two articles on the front page condemning a two second soundbite at a keynote which was vetted by one of the most image conscious companies on the planet. I don't think your statement is true. If a code of conduct does not treat everyone as equals then it sets up a dynamic that will cause some group of people to shutdown and not participate.

groby_b 11y ago

You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle. It's contingent on actual behavior. Which was kind of the point of the whole article.

f0code 11y ago
See Donglegate.
- parenthephobia 11y ago
  Since you're apparently talking about how unreasonable LambdaConf's code of conduct is, "donglegate" seems totally irrelevant given that it didn't involve the consequences of violating any conference's code of conduct, much less this one. "Donglegate" involved person a being offended by what another person said whilst at a conference, and somebody else - not the conference organizer, or indeed anyone at the conference at all - punishing the person who caused offence.
  - f0code 11y ago
    They were reported to staff, who escorted them to a private area to shame them for saying something that someone found offensive. You don't see that as having a chilling effect?
    - parenthephobia 11y ago
      You're moving the goalposts. Donglegate isn't about conference staff having a quiet word with people in private. It's about one person getting fired for offending another, and that person eventually getting fired because of community lacklash. If all that had happened was that somebody got offended, privately told a staff member, and then the person causing offence had been privately spoken to - which is what the PyCon code of conduct required - we would never have heard about it. Now, the possibility that the offendee might shame me publicly and cause me to get fired might have a chilling effect. But that's nothing to do with codes of conduct. If anything, publicly shaming somebody that offends you would be in violation of the code.
      - f0code 11y ago
        No, I'm not. If anything, you're splitting hairs. Your assertion was "You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle." The guys in donglegate did none of those things, and yet they were in fact reported to staff. Over private words. My point is that you never know what is going to offend someone. This CoC says that you agree to be removed from the premises if someone gets offended, provided they are of proper minority status, which in itself invalidates the whole idea that this is a non-political CoC.

st3v3r 11y ago

"My allowed attendance would be contingent on remaining silent the entire time on premises." Only if you are incapable of acting like an adult human being. As someone who is also a member of the majority, I would find no problem in being able to follow the rules, because I can behave like an adult.

f0code 11y ago
That is already expected of people. Why do we need to take a pledge before going to hear some people talk about code?
- greenrd 11y ago
  If it's already what you feel is expected of you, why object to agreeing to it?
- st3v3r 11y ago
  Because people like you claim that you'd never be able to speak, implying that you cannot act like an adult in public.

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

Are you aware of the concept of "intersectionality"? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality )