3 ms·

Your last sentence is absolutely true. If you think about the combined value added to a company per developer vs. the wages it's probably the most out of wack o

Your last sentence is absolutely true. If you think about the combined value added to a company per developer vs. the wages it's probably the most out of wack of any industry of all time.

gooseus 11y ago
> the most out of wack of any industry of all time. While I cautiously agree, the pedant in me feels the need to remind everyone of the number of industries that have built on the backs of slavery where each individual may not have added much measurable value to the prospective company's bottom line, the fact that the wages were 0 means they were still infinitely worse off than any of us. Considering there are large industries around the world that still operate based on this model (search Thailand fishing slavery), I need not have even used the past tense. Just a little perspective before we all return to complaining about our first world injustices.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  This comment adds nothing of value to the discussion. While it's terrible that slavery happened/is happening, it has absolutely no bearing on our situation today. Just because other people might have it worse is NO REASON why we should not try to better our situation. Not doing that is not going to fix the problem of slavery. And calling this a "first world problem" is you admitting you have no idea what you're talking about.
  - gooseus 11y ago
    I think taking a step back to consider the bigger picture and your place in it is a valuable thing that more people should do when carrying on online discussions. While you may not have gotten any value from my comment, it doesn't mean other people did not. Also your claim that my comment AT ALL implies that we should not try to better our own situation is a false inference that seems to me to indicate that your own comment is merely a knee-jerk defensive reaction to a perceived attack on your position. And if the plight of web developers who can't negotiate higher salaries than 80-160k/yr isn't a "first world problem", then pardon me, you're right, I must not know what I'm talking about.
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      The only reason you would have made your comment is to try and stop people from bettering themselves, out of some feeling that there are others who are worse. It adds no value whatsoever; you are simply trying to guilt people into not fighting for what they deserve.
      - gooseus 11y ago
        Wow, I'm curious how often your assumptions about others motivations puts you at odds with people? Your assumption that I made my comment to make people feel guilty is false. If you felt guilt and took offense, it's because you took it that way. I made that comment because I wanted people to feel grateful, you may say that as me wanting people to be complacent and just be "grateful they have a job". But that's not it either... we're all extremely lucky to be alive in a time where we can leverage our skills this easily and have all these platforms to coordinate and discuss how we can better our situation. We'll be just fine because we have power and influence, even if it isn't as much as we'd like. I don't feel guilty for what I have and what others don't, and I wouldn't want anyone else to either because guilt is useless. I have gratitude for all the opportunities and skills I have. I believe that feeling gratitude creates a mindset that is more productive and useful to actually changing things (including bettering our collective situation). In any case, this thread is probably over, so at this point neither of us are contributing to anything but building our own egos and I'm sure we've both got bigger things to attend to.

Your last sentence is absolutely true. If you think about the combined value added to a company per developer vs. the wages it's probably the most out of wack of any industry of all time.

gooseus 11y ago

> the most out of wack of any industry of all time. While I cautiously agree, the pedant in me feels the need to remind everyone of the number of industries that have built on the backs of slavery where each individual may not have added much measurable value to the prospective company's bottom line, the fact that the wages were 0 means they were still infinitely worse off than any of us. Considering there are large industries around the world that still operate based on this model (search Thailand fishing slavery), I need not have even used the past tense. Just a little perspective before we all return to complaining about our first world injustices.

st3v3r 11y ago
This comment adds nothing of value to the discussion. While it's terrible that slavery happened/is happening, it has absolutely no bearing on our situation today. Just because other people might have it worse is NO REASON why we should not try to better our situation. Not doing that is not going to fix the problem of slavery. And calling this a "first world problem" is you admitting you have no idea what you're talking about.
- gooseus 11y ago
  I think taking a step back to consider the bigger picture and your place in it is a valuable thing that more people should do when carrying on online discussions. While you may not have gotten any value from my comment, it doesn't mean other people did not. Also your claim that my comment AT ALL implies that we should not try to better our own situation is a false inference that seems to me to indicate that your own comment is merely a knee-jerk defensive reaction to a perceived attack on your position. And if the plight of web developers who can't negotiate higher salaries than 80-160k/yr isn't a "first world problem", then pardon me, you're right, I must not know what I'm talking about.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    The only reason you would have made your comment is to try and stop people from bettering themselves, out of some feeling that there are others who are worse. It adds no value whatsoever; you are simply trying to guilt people into not fighting for what they deserve.
    - gooseus 11y ago
      Wow, I'm curious how often your assumptions about others motivations puts you at odds with people? Your assumption that I made my comment to make people feel guilty is false. If you felt guilt and took offense, it's because you took it that way. I made that comment because I wanted people to feel grateful, you may say that as me wanting people to be complacent and just be "grateful they have a job". But that's not it either... we're all extremely lucky to be alive in a time where we can leverage our skills this easily and have all these platforms to coordinate and discuss how we can better our situation. We'll be just fine because we have power and influence, even if it isn't as much as we'd like. I don't feel guilty for what I have and what others don't, and I wouldn't want anyone else to either because guilt is useless. I have gratitude for all the opportunities and skills I have. I believe that feeling gratitude creates a mindset that is more productive and useful to actually changing things (including bettering our collective situation). In any case, this thread is probably over, so at this point neither of us are contributing to anything but building our own egos and I'm sure we've both got bigger things to attend to.