4 ms·

Could Harvesting Fog Help Solve the World’s Water Crisis?

15 points by DamienSF 11y ago

designtofly 11y ago
For those that are interested in data science, there is this related challenge: The Tableau Foundation Challenge: From Fog Nets to Neural Nets https://www.drivendata.org/competitions/9/ https://www.drivendata.org/competitions/9/
briantakita 11y ago
This solution would have negative disruptive impacts. Harvesting fog would effect dependent microclimates & ecosystems, by taking water out of the air. This also has an affect of causing a greater concentration of the water to be held by big institutions (corporations & government). This creates a social power imbalance, concentrates the economy to global institutions, & reduces autonomy of the people who live on the land. Plundering & profiteering off the commons & reducing autonomy in the guise of humanitarian efforts. --- re: better solutions, after all harvesting fog is a "solution". Regenerate the ecosystems. Encourage small scale regenerative agriculture, that utilizes native plants in polycultures to restore ecosystems and stimulate local health, novelty, & economy. Restoring local ecosystems has a positive effect on the local watershed. Reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone caused the river to flow again & had positive fundamental impacts on the local ecosystem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q
- dandelany 11y ago
  > Harvesting fog would effect dependent microclimates & ecosystems, Any possible method we use to collect water from our surroundings will affect dependent microclimates and ecosystems. The same could be said about building reservoirs, or even collecting rainwater. The question is "to what extent"? Unless you can present some evidence that fog harvesting is truly disruptive, I'm going to assume it's not much different from collecting rain, ie. has minimal impact. I haven't found any papers suggesting differently. Surely these things aren't very efficient, and therefore any one of them is pulling a tiny fraction of water out of the air. I mean, just think about the height of a fog cloud, and realize they are only scraping a bit of water out of the bottom 10 feet of that air column! Certainly it must be better than draining the Colorado river before it reaches the ocean, as we do currently. > This also has an affect of causing a greater concentration of the water to be held by big institutions Plastic nets that can be erected by anyone, anywhere are somehow worse in this regard than a centralized municipal water supply?! Or a dam that takes millions of dollars to build? Quite the opposite. These things are practically the definition of a decentralized technology. And, cool video, but your proposed "better solution" seems nonspecific and naive. The problems are different in every ecosystem, and therefore, so are the solutions. These nets are only practical in certain environments which receive regular fog, and wouldn't make sense in Yellowstone. Likewise, all the wolves in the world won't make it rain more in the Atacama. The problem is precipitation, not erosion.
  - briantakita 11y ago
    Thank you for your response. I would like to take back the inferences I drew re: centralizing supply. I'm a bit sensitive over some governments making rainwater collection illegal & ecosystem-friendly landscape design; due to some of my affected law-abiding friends having issues with it. > The same could be said about building reservoirs, or even collecting rainwater. That's true. Responsible water stewardship requires systemic discipline that is case-specific. One of the principles of regenerative agriculture & similar philosophies (i.e. permaculture) is to create edge effects to create the context for a more robust ecosystem. Pooled water, especially when designed to maximize edge effects (i.e. increasing the circumference of the shore), is a tech that contributes to creating robust ecosystems. Harvesting fog seems to fit in many circumstances. > These things are practically the definition of a decentralized technology. Well said & I agree. Harvesting fog seems like a legit tech option in concept. > And, cool video, but your proposed "better solution" seems nonspecific and naive. I was illustrating an example of how a small change has ripples. If history is any guide, tech (technology & technique) has unexpected benefits & drawbacks. Every ecosystem is different. As you said... > The problems are different in every ecosystem, and therefore, so are the solutions.
tim333 11y ago
...World’s Water Crisis Is there a crisis? There seems to be about as much rain as in the past. Maybe the psychological need for pools and golf courses has increased.
- acchow 11y ago
  And a lot more people than before
lazyant 11y ago
They already have "fog catchers" in Atacama desert, see for example http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/05/150521_atrapanieblas_chile_desierto_lp http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/05/150521_atrapaniebl...

15 points by DamienSF 11y ago

For those that are interested in data science, there is this related challenge: The Tableau Foundation Challenge: From Fog Nets to Neural Nets https://www.drivendata.org/competitions/9/ https://www.drivendata.org/competitions/9/

briantakita 11y ago

This solution would have negative disruptive impacts. Harvesting fog would effect dependent microclimates & ecosystems, by taking water out of the air. This also has an affect of causing a greater concentration of the water to be held by big institutions (corporations & government). This creates a social power imbalance, concentrates the economy to global institutions, & reduces autonomy of the people who live on the land. Plundering & profiteering off the commons & reducing autonomy in the guise of humanitarian efforts. --- re: better solutions, after all harvesting fog is a "solution". Regenerate the ecosystems. Encourage small scale regenerative agriculture, that utilizes native plants in polycultures to restore ecosystems and stimulate local health, novelty, & economy. Restoring local ecosystems has a positive effect on the local watershed. Reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone caused the river to flow again & had positive fundamental impacts on the local ecosystem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

dandelany 11y ago
> Harvesting fog would effect dependent microclimates & ecosystems, Any possible method we use to collect water from our surroundings will affect dependent microclimates and ecosystems. The same could be said about building reservoirs, or even collecting rainwater. The question is "to what extent"? Unless you can present some evidence that fog harvesting is truly disruptive, I'm going to assume it's not much different from collecting rain, ie. has minimal impact. I haven't found any papers suggesting differently. Surely these things aren't very efficient, and therefore any one of them is pulling a tiny fraction of water out of the air. I mean, just think about the height of a fog cloud, and realize they are only scraping a bit of water out of the bottom 10 feet of that air column! Certainly it must be better than draining the Colorado river before it reaches the ocean, as we do currently. > This also has an affect of causing a greater concentration of the water to be held by big institutions Plastic nets that can be erected by anyone, anywhere are somehow worse in this regard than a centralized municipal water supply?! Or a dam that takes millions of dollars to build? Quite the opposite. These things are practically the definition of a decentralized technology. And, cool video, but your proposed "better solution" seems nonspecific and naive. The problems are different in every ecosystem, and therefore, so are the solutions. These nets are only practical in certain environments which receive regular fog, and wouldn't make sense in Yellowstone. Likewise, all the wolves in the world won't make it rain more in the Atacama. The problem is precipitation, not erosion.
- briantakita 11y ago
  Thank you for your response. I would like to take back the inferences I drew re: centralizing supply. I'm a bit sensitive over some governments making rainwater collection illegal & ecosystem-friendly landscape design; due to some of my affected law-abiding friends having issues with it. > The same could be said about building reservoirs, or even collecting rainwater. That's true. Responsible water stewardship requires systemic discipline that is case-specific. One of the principles of regenerative agriculture & similar philosophies (i.e. permaculture) is to create edge effects to create the context for a more robust ecosystem. Pooled water, especially when designed to maximize edge effects (i.e. increasing the circumference of the shore), is a tech that contributes to creating robust ecosystems. Harvesting fog seems to fit in many circumstances. > These things are practically the definition of a decentralized technology. Well said & I agree. Harvesting fog seems like a legit tech option in concept. > And, cool video, but your proposed "better solution" seems nonspecific and naive. I was illustrating an example of how a small change has ripples. If history is any guide, tech (technology & technique) has unexpected benefits & drawbacks. Every ecosystem is different. As you said... > The problems are different in every ecosystem, and therefore, so are the solutions.

tim333 11y ago

...World’s Water Crisis Is there a crisis? There seems to be about as much rain as in the past. Maybe the psychological need for pools and golf courses has increased.

acchow 11y ago
And a lot more people than before

lazyant 11y ago

They already have "fog catchers" in Atacama desert, see for example http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/05/150521_atrapanieblas_chile_desierto_lp http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/05/150521_atrapaniebl...