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Poor people don't need to 'seem less poor'. They need to be less poor. And admitting you need to save is the first step to doing so. I wonder if this need to se

Poor people don't need to 'seem less poor'. They need to be less poor. And admitting you need to save is the first step to doing so. I wonder if this need to seem less poor so often is actually part of how some of them get poor; wasting money/effort trying to influence perception instead of spending it trying to change reality.

ams6110 11y ago
You're close, the poor in most cases have self-defeating money habits. Any time they get money, they spend it immediately on things that have a short term feel-good effect, because their life has so little of that otherwise. This might be junk food, cigarettes/booze/drugs, lottery tickets, restaurant meals, gadgets or other "bling" etc. They rarely have a person in their life who models delayed gratification and saving behavior, let alone strategic investing, so they never see the benefit of doing that.
- specialist 11y ago
  No. The singular defining quality of the poor is that they lack capital. This makes everything about being poor more expensive.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- rifung 11y ago
  >They rarely have a person in their life who models delayed gratification and saving behavior, let alone strategic investing, so they never see the benefit of doing that. I'm not really sure this is correct. If you have a source please do share it. From what I've read, the reason they have difficulty saving isn't because they weren't taught to do so but because when you constantly have to no to things you want, you use up a lot of energy, or more specifically, glucose. This in turn makes you more impulsive and less rational. For example see: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2010/wang.cfm https://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2010/wan... That being the case, I don't really like the idea of labeling poor people as being poor because of their inability to save or their own foolishness. There have also been studies that show that living in poverty actually changes your brain and makes you less intelligent. See: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/poverty-disturbs-children-s-brain-development-and-academic-performance/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/poverty-disturbs-c... It's a self perpetuating cycle as far as I can tell
- ryao 11y ago
  They should read things like YNAB: http://www.youneedabudget.com http://www.youneedabudget.com It is amazing how much money one has when one exercises restraint when spending it.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    Budgets rapidly break down when you're regularly faced with unforeseen but necessary expenses that blow your cash reserves out of the water. A lot of the problems of poverty is that once you get below a certain level, even if you are the most thrifty person around, you lose predictability in ways that end up costing you a lot of extra money. Suddenly your employer pays you a day late and your carefully arranged bill payment schedule goes out the window and you get charged extra fees, or your car that you depend on to keep your job breaks down and you're forced into ridiculously high interest credit.
    - ryao 11y ago
      The purpose of trying to budget is to stop living from paycheck to paycheck. There might be some people for which this will not work, but the ones leasing new cars every few years (or signing overpriced contracts because of the "free" phone every two years) are not among them. I am sure that many people in such circumstances could find little things that could be cut if they looked (e.g. Cable TV, the landline phone, etcetera). Such things add up. I have been applying such things to my parents' budget. Just the other day I heard from my mother that she no longer worries when unexpected medical expenses come up because she has found that the savings that my suggestions made more than paid for it. She gets TV for free OTA, replaced her expensive landline with free VoIP through Google Voice using an Obihai ATA, has lower electrical consumption (from various things, but the simplest being putting a lid on the frying pan to reduce evaporative heat loss, which is an efficiency improvement that allows food to cook faster), has a promotional rate for the newspaper she insists on having, has cell phone service that has no monthly fee (through ring plus), obtains heating oil at COD pricing, etcetera. Such things add to a four figure amount each year.
      - vidarh 11y ago
- vidarh 11y ago
  I wonder on what basis you claim "the poor in most cases have self-defeating money habits", because your description doesn't fit for any people I've know with little money.
barrkel 11y ago
Seeming less poor is what measurably increases your quality of life in almost every social dimension. Given that social capital is the only capital most poor people have, it counts for a lot. (As a chap who grew up poor.)
Kalium 11y ago
If you asked them, they would say that they definitely need to seem less poor. It brings a measure of status, easing their way through daily social affairs.

ams6110 11y ago

You're close, the poor in most cases have self-defeating money habits. Any time they get money, they spend it immediately on things that have a short term feel-good effect, because their life has so little of that otherwise. This might be junk food, cigarettes/booze/drugs, lottery tickets, restaurant meals, gadgets or other "bling" etc. They rarely have a person in their life who models delayed gratification and saving behavior, let alone strategic investing, so they never see the benefit of doing that.

specialist 11y ago
No. The singular defining quality of the poor is that they lack capital. This makes everything about being poor more expensive.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
rifung 11y ago
>They rarely have a person in their life who models delayed gratification and saving behavior, let alone strategic investing, so they never see the benefit of doing that. I'm not really sure this is correct. If you have a source please do share it. From what I've read, the reason they have difficulty saving isn't because they weren't taught to do so but because when you constantly have to no to things you want, you use up a lot of energy, or more specifically, glucose. This in turn makes you more impulsive and less rational. For example see: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2010/wang.cfm https://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2010/wan... That being the case, I don't really like the idea of labeling poor people as being poor because of their inability to save or their own foolishness. There have also been studies that show that living in poverty actually changes your brain and makes you less intelligent. See: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/poverty-disturbs-children-s-brain-development-and-academic-performance/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/poverty-disturbs-c... It's a self perpetuating cycle as far as I can tell
ryao 11y ago
They should read things like YNAB: http://www.youneedabudget.com http://www.youneedabudget.com It is amazing how much money one has when one exercises restraint when spending it.
- vidarh 11y ago
  Budgets rapidly break down when you're regularly faced with unforeseen but necessary expenses that blow your cash reserves out of the water. A lot of the problems of poverty is that once you get below a certain level, even if you are the most thrifty person around, you lose predictability in ways that end up costing you a lot of extra money. Suddenly your employer pays you a day late and your carefully arranged bill payment schedule goes out the window and you get charged extra fees, or your car that you depend on to keep your job breaks down and you're forced into ridiculously high interest credit.
  - ryao 11y ago
    The purpose of trying to budget is to stop living from paycheck to paycheck. There might be some people for which this will not work, but the ones leasing new cars every few years (or signing overpriced contracts because of the "free" phone every two years) are not among them. I am sure that many people in such circumstances could find little things that could be cut if they looked (e.g. Cable TV, the landline phone, etcetera). Such things add up. I have been applying such things to my parents' budget. Just the other day I heard from my mother that she no longer worries when unexpected medical expenses come up because she has found that the savings that my suggestions made more than paid for it. She gets TV for free OTA, replaced her expensive landline with free VoIP through Google Voice using an Obihai ATA, has lower electrical consumption (from various things, but the simplest being putting a lid on the frying pan to reduce evaporative heat loss, which is an efficiency improvement that allows food to cook faster), has a promotional rate for the newspaper she insists on having, has cell phone service that has no monthly fee (through ring plus), obtains heating oil at COD pricing, etcetera. Such things add to a four figure amount each year.
    - vidarh 11y ago
vidarh 11y ago
I wonder on what basis you claim "the poor in most cases have self-defeating money habits", because your description doesn't fit for any people I've know with little money.

barrkel 11y ago

Seeming less poor is what measurably increases your quality of life in almost every social dimension. Given that social capital is the only capital most poor people have, it counts for a lot. (As a chap who grew up poor.)

Kalium 11y ago

If you asked them, they would say that they definitely need to seem less poor. It brings a measure of status, easing their way through daily social affairs.