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Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

• mikehearn 11y ago
  I interpreted that comment as a jab at the PC industry. The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade. Isn't that the correct interpretation, considering the whole point of bringing that up is because they're positioning a new device intended to replace the PC? I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poor people". Granted, this interpretation would make for a boring thinkpiece and would not get me to #1 on HN.
  • aetherson 11y ago
    I don't think that it means "LOL poor people" either. But I do think that it's bullshit marketing talk. Apple is perfectly happy to be proud (rightly, I think) of the enduring utility of older pieces of Apple hardware -- but if some other company's hardware continues to be perfectly serviceable for 5 years, that's sad? Also, if you have a 5 year old PC that's genuinely not serving your needs any more, sure, you could pay $600 for an iPad Pro that also probably won't serve your needs, or you could pay around $400 for a new PC that will serve your needs.
    • bitJericho 11y ago
      Bought a dual CPU workstation with 12gb ram and two quad core 12 mb cache xeons for under 400 bucks. It's about 5 year old tech and its awesome!
      • tdkl 11y ago
        Yep, eBay is booming with second hand workstations like this. Cousin bought a HP Z210 Quad Core E3-1270 3.40GHz with 16GB RAM for 320€. Added a SSD and cheap GPU and is an awesome 500€ machine that can last for years.
      • orbitingpluto 11y ago
        Totally there. If your electricity is cheap, it's an awesome deal. Since, oh about, 2009, there are a lot of choices that are akin to buying a '57 Chevy.
  • treebeard901 11y ago
    I agree with your interpretation. It would seem to have more to do with the slowing sales numbers for tablets as well as the incorrect assumption we would be in a post-PC era at this point. That day will come eventually and while large tablets may not be the answer, Apple is certainly hoping it will be. There has to be a good bit of concern at Apple that they are still largely dependent on the iPhone.
  • slantyyz 11y ago
    >> The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade Compelling reason why I had to upgrade my iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and original iPad after less than 3 years? Painfully slow and unusable. Well if the compelling reason to upgrade is "painfully slow and unusable", then maybe a >= 5 year old PC that still works isn't a bad thing. If I'm not mistaken, my 2011 MBP's quad core i7 can still outperform the CPUs in today's Macbook Airs (the most popular Mac notebooks) in terms of pure processing power.
    • pjc50 11y ago
      Compelling reason why I had to upgrade my iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and original iPad after less than 3 years? Painfully slow and unusable. Exactly. Upgrading is a cost; not just money but also time. I upgraded my 1st gen iPad's OS exactly once (5 -> 6 I think) and it was a completely horrendous experience, involving PC iTunes. The main driver of PC upgrades, apart from improved games, is bloat and the slow deterioration of Windows installations. It's not as bad as it used to be but reinstalling the OS and cleaning the fans can often substantially improve an old PC. I still have my original iPad, but it's used for a very limited set of things as the browser is crashy and many apps aren't available for its OS. Users want neither forced upgrades, manufactured obsolescence, nor bogus SaaS rentalware like Adobe Creative Cloud.
      • slantyyz 11y ago
        I still have all three of those iOS devices (and my wife's now retired 4S) mentioned in my original post. The saddest thing? The iPhone 4 has only one easy job to do. Play music in my bedroom. It can't even do that reliably. My iPhone 3G (now a desk clock) is more stable than the 4. There's a reason I left iOS for Android on the phone side and Windows on the tablet side. I've been burned enough that I don't care to be burned again. Granted, Apple's devices are probably less prone to bloat now that Federighi took over from Forstall, but there's nothing compelling for me on the iOS side right now. A Pencil-enabled Mini would be very interesting, but that's about it.
        • 11y ago
  • Mikeb85 11y ago
    > The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade Or maybe the PC world did so well 5 years ago that Apple hasn't provided them a compelling reason to switch to an iPad?
  • gnud 11y ago
    Well, I've had my desktop computer for nearly 5 years. Upgraded the ram once, and added a new hard drive. It still does everything I need it to do. I understand this is sad for Apple, but I don't see how it's sad for me?
    • dublinben 11y ago
      If you don't buy a new Apple computer every two years, they won't be able to afford to design a new computer to sell you every two years!
  • npatrick04 11y ago
    I built my desktop from scratch (for the first time) in 2005, added a couple components from other computers as they died, and still use it with no issues. I've thought about upgrading components in it, but since they haven't died yet, and it still works just fine, there's just not much of a point.
    • stuxnet79 11y ago
      Built a monster PC late last year and I see it lasting me a long time as well. I don't want to play the game of always jumping on the latest and greatest. Your pockets will always get emptied out and I've discovered accumulating material possessions and keeping up with the Joneses doesn't give me the endorphin rush like it used to. Thanks for this comment.
      • devcamcar 11y ago
        I did this back in 2009 and dropped a wad of cash on a Mac Pro tower. Thing is a frickin' champ. Upgraded it to 12GB of RAM and a nice SSD for the OS drive and never looked back. Turns out 4 Nehalem cores at 2.66GHz will last you quite a while if you don't do video editing work or play the latest games at full resolution.
    • toxican 11y ago
      This is the way to go, if you know how. Unfortunately a lot of people's brains just shut off when they have to think about their computer on that level.
  • dpweb 11y ago
    Just bought a like-new PC on ebay for $200. It's not about being poor because anyone who says they can't scrape up $200 if they had to, is lying to you. It's the shocking fact that (especially if cash strapped) you can live your life, without constantly buying more and newer things. Of course Apple's stance is, you must buy our new products every year. But I can get on Facebook and email and whatever else on my $200 PC just fine - the value isn't there for alot of people.
    • hellbanner 11y ago
      $200? That's a lot of money for many people.
      • FireBeyond 11y ago
        As opposed to what? It's still less than half the price of a usable iPad (I know the Mini 2 is $270, but let's not pretend they're comparable), let alone Mac.
        • IanCal 11y ago
          I think that's in response to the statement: > anyone who says they can't scrape up $200 if they had to, is lying to you.
        • hellbanner 11y ago
          As opposed to someone working a minimum wage job & trying to eat decently, for example.
    • Tactic 11y ago
      As someone that has lived on the street I can tell you that you are wrong about the $200. Don't read your life into others.
      • dpweb 11y ago
        There are people that extremely poor yes. They need help and society should help them. But they wouldn't be in the market for a new computer. My point is the cost of computing is about as low as it can be expected to get.
  • paulmd 11y ago
    Yup. Clock-for-clock, Skylake is about 10-20% faster than Sandy Bridge, IPC improvements have been <5% per year. The apparent improvement since that time has been slowly cranking up the stock clockrates. If you overclock a Sandy Bridge to >4 GHz, which is extremely reasonable, then it keeps up just fine with a Skylake in most tasks. CPU performance is largely "good enough" for most users. OS bloat has finally stopped: Win8.1 is just as fast as Win7 (and is more stable) and Win10 is faster and skinnier. Most users don't do anything intensive and probably wouldn't even notice if you substituted in a low-end processor. For those that do have big needs, GPU offloading has taken off in a big way. This is kind of unfortunate in other respects. CPU performance (especially single-threaded) is extremely important for high refresh rates. At 144hz there's no margin for any weak link in the system. But I recognize that I'm kind of a niche user in that regard.
    • cheald 11y ago
      > Yup. Clock-for-clock, Skylake is about 10-20% faster than Sandy Bridge Sorry, can you elaborate on this? Is Skylake somehow performing multiple instructions per core per clock cycle somehow?
      • dijit 11y ago
        Added hardware instructions for common software instruction combinations taking load of the CPU itself and offloading it into a mini-ASIC. Like AES, Floating point, h.264 etc;
        • curt15 11y ago
          Intel CPUs have had special AES instructions for a long time.
      • paulmd 11y ago
        Sometimes - there's multiple types of execution units in a CPU core (even multiples of the same type), and a thread can dispatch to multiple units at once (superscalar execution). It can also reorder the instruction stream to keep all the units occupied (out-of-order execution), preemptively execute along the most likely direction a branch will take (speculative execution), etc. Basically, it's all a massive game to keep all the units of a core busy to execute the desired instruction stream as fast as possible. Over time, successive CPU architectures have gotten better at playing the game: better occupancy, more execution units, and more powerful units (SSE, AVX, etc), which translates into a greater number of instructions executed per clock cycle (IPC). That's why a Skylake is much faster than a Pentium 4, even though the P4 might run at a higher clockrate. The Skylake has better IPC. And as a side note: what Hyperthreading does is duplicate the part of the core that manages registers and instruction dispatch for a thread. So you have a second thread that can utilize any execution units that the first thread left unoccupied. Bulldozer works somewhat similarly: two threads share a single core, and each core has a pair of integer execution units but they share a floating-point unit. So kinda like a Super-Hyperthreading, where they include a duplicate of (what they hope is) the most needed execution unit. Doesn't always work out in reality though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superscalar_processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superscalar_processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(microarchitecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(microarchitecture)
  • deleted 11y ago
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  • neovive 11y ago
    There is quite a large cohort of PC users with minimal needs beyond a web browser for email, news and some basic entertainment (Youtube and simple gaming). Google has also done an amazing job with the Chrome ecosystem providing web services that meet all of these needs.
  • pier25 11y ago
    Of course one can interpret things in any way... What if instead a Mercedes representative had said: > People with cheap 5 year old cars is sad Just before presenting its new car? Would you think the same?
  • markatkinson 11y ago
    Agreed that the "LOL poor people" is probably not the intention however I am sure the internet will have a field day with it. With that in mind it will likely generate some really interesting discussions around the quality and longevity of Apples products. Imho smart phone tech is plateauing and I get the feeling Apple is going to struggle more and more to justify the prices they charge for iPhones and other products. My iPhone 5 (4/5 years of use) broke 3 weeks ago, and after reviewing prices of phones I just couldn't bring myself to spend 3/4 times the amount on a phone when I can get one "just as good", but Android. In fact I was chatting to a friend who recently also went from iPhone to Android, something he said that I took to heart was that spending more than R3500 (about $230) on a cellphone is an unnecessary luxury. I am willing to bet that limit could be pushed down too.
    • paperpunk 11y ago
      Couldn't you make the opposite argument from the same starting point? That as the technology plateaus, and the upgrade cycle becomes longer, there's much more reason to spend more on a handset because you're not going to feel like replacing it a year later? Spending a bit more doesn't seem like an issue for something that will last 4/5 years. Your friend may say spending more than an R3500 is an unnecessary luxury on a cellphone. I say that the cellphone is the single most important piece of technology I own and so isn't the area I want to be stingy on. Apple isn't necessarily the best choice even with that in mind, but that's a separate argument.
      • CaptSpify 11y ago
        Your assuming that the item your spending more on is worth more. It's really hard to qualify on iPhone vs Android, but my super-simplified calculation is: iPhone = 4 stars, Android = 4 stars If the Android is $200, and the iPhone is $400, I'm gonna go with the Android
      • markatkinson 11y ago
        That is a valid point, but if I can get a good Android phone that lasts half as long for a quarter of the price then I am afraid I am going with the Android. But really now I am just throwing around numbers with no real experience of how long this android phone will last (Moto G 3rd Gen, so far so good). Something I also found was during my transition I had two Android phones in the space of 3 months, (I used a friends spare while I replaced my iPhone), and transitioning from the one to the other was incredibly friction-less. I mean it actually made me pause and "wow" a bit. I suppose my argument was more that the quality gap of iPhone to many Android phones has closed a hell of a lot over the last few years, and I am just not sure I can justify paying so much more for an iPhone anymore. Especially as the ZAR weakens against the USD.
  • ignoramous 11y ago
    Yes. The irony is that iPhone and iPad are no better as explained in the article(s)[0]. "Based on my experience with Apple hardware newer than my laptop, I’m guessing it’s the former. Since 2011, I’ve bought a couple of iPhones (both dead), numerous connectors and power cords (all dead; I’ve switched to knockoffs), and a replacement laptop battery (currently half-dead and in need of replacement)." [0] https://www.techinasia.com/awkward-moment-apple-mocked-good-hardware-poor-people https://www.techinasia.com/awkward-moment-apple-mocked-good-...
  • incepted 11y ago
    > I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poor people". He didn't mean to but this is the general reflection of the culture that permeates Apple as a company and the bubble in which they live. I remember once one of my wealthy friends saying "I don't understand why people live in one bedroom apartments". I stared at her for a solid minute to determine if she was joking but no, she was dead serious. She genuinely did not understand. She was born and raised in a wealthy family and she just had lost track of the rest of the world. Schiller and the Apple execs have similar blinders on and once in a while, the mask drops in a public speech because the speech writers and their proofreaders have similar blinders on and didn't realize the enormity of the implication.
    • googamooga 11y ago
      This story is old as the world. "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" - "Let them eat a cake", as great princess Marie Antoinette said upon learning that the peasants had no bread.
      • yoha 11y ago
        There is no support for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake
      • junke 11y ago
        There is no proof it was actually her: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake
      • Htsthbjig 11y ago
        She never told that. That was fictional phrase written in a novel by one famous writer, and attributed to Marie Antoinette, in order to discredit her because those who did benefit from that. You should contrast your sources.
    • FussyZeus 11y ago
      I wouldn't say it's a bubble so much as they just aren't motivated to consider those viewpoints. Apple's products are high cost and high status, they have no reason to consider the lower end of the economic spectrum; that's not their market. It would be like Rolls Royce running radio ads in rural Kentucky. Yeah, many people there would probably like one, but they can't get one.
  • yuhong 11y ago
    I was thinking about selling Windows to a non-profit foundation for a while now.
• deleted 11y ago
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• johndevor 11y ago
  Holy crap the "politically correct" army has entered the tech world. We're not safe anywhere...
  • deleted 11y ago
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• imaffett 11y ago
  I still use my 2009 MBP. I upgraded to an SSD drive and 8 gigs of ram. I don't game on it, but I can do almost all of my development on it. I'll admit it's slower then my 2013 MPB at work, but I see no reason to spend more money on a working computer. My second computer is a Chromebook. My oldest daughter uses it for school work and we couldn't be happier. It's much better then our iPad (which we don't use anymore).
• sudosushi 11y ago
  As someone sitting at a nearly 5 year old Macbook Pro, I took the comment as an off hand throwaway. I understand not liking the comment, but this isn't news. A company thinks everyone should be using the latest of their products. Oh no.
  • TearsInTheRain 11y ago
    There are two articles about this non-story on the first page of HN. What a joke
    • bargl 11y ago
      I think this may be a consequence of HackerNews not having a downvote option for stories. I like the fact that they don't and I wouldn't suggest making the change but it tends to allow stories that have a higher dislike to like ratio to rise because the number of people who have an opinion are very high. This does tend to prevent some filtering of storied I do think should stay up on the top. It would be an interesting experiment to add a downvote to stories button to see what happened, even if that button didn't actually affect where the stories showed in the list at first.
      • jaimex2 11y ago
        or you know, we could use our internal filters. I am disappointed with myself for clicking this link. Sometimes the comments are too hard to pass up.
  • onion2k 11y ago
    A company thinks everyone should be using the latest of their products. Oh no. An alternative way to read this is that Apple themselves don't believe their own products will be worth using after 5 years, and will therefore fail to support them properly in the long term. Anyone in the market for a computer to last longer than that (eg most home users, and many corporate users who don't lease) might have to look elsewhere. This is not an offhand throwaway comment. This speaks to the absolute heart of Apple's strategy.
• po1nter 11y ago
  I don't understand how the author went from the guy saying it's "really sad" to "Apple is insulting people". I mean even his first argument on why people don't upgrade IS actually sad since they can't afford to do that. I know it is because I'm one of those people who can't afford to upgrade my machine. /rant typed on a 5 year old Asus N53SV.
• sz4kerto 11y ago
  I think I have a rusty, almost 5 year old PC lying around. It has an Intel i7-2600K overclocked to 4.6 GHz, 24 GB RAM, 240G SSD and a Radeon 6950 GPU that can run most games well in fHD. Most of the machines Apple sells are actually slower than this PC.
  • atonse 11y ago
    That's a great exception to the rule. The overwhelming majority of computers Apple is talking about, are probably shitty $400 PCs that were underpowered from day one, which are just barely chugging along. Because that is actually what most people buy.
    • paulmd 11y ago
      Thing is, OS bloat has finally ground to a halt. Win8.1 wasn't really any slower than 7, and Win10 is actually faster in my experience. So really, you don't need a stronger machine today than you did five years ago. Any perceived slowdown is just the result of malware, fragmentation, and DLL buildup - refresh the OS and maybe install an SSD and they're fine. I'm using a laptop from 2010 with an i7-720QM and an SSD, and it's perfectly snappy. I frequently let it do light encoding tasks while I'm using my desktop.
      • atonse 11y ago
        Partly. Yes, the operating systems feel faster, but they are all relying more on GPUs for their rendering. And one way cheap Windows PCs keep their costs down is by using cheap integrated GPUs that are quite underpowered. I use Windows 10 on in VMWare every day at 4k resolution on my retina macbook pro. It feels a bit sluggish, but I know I'm pushing the limits of VM graphics on a laptop with that resolution. But I can only imagine that a computer that's 6-7 years old would start to struggle graphically in Windows 10.
    • slantyyz 11y ago
      I bought a 2008 Macbook as a refurb back in 2009. Apple didn't think it was worth making Mountain Lion running on it. Meanwhile, I installed the newest 64 bit version of Windows 10 on it as part of the Insider program, and it generally runs faster than my Lion install.
• johansch 11y ago
  I built a desktop PC almost exactly five years ago. - Intel Core i5 2500K, 3.3 GHz, quad-core (200 USD) - 8B (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 (100 USD) - 120GB 2.5" SSD Intel X25-M G2 (200 USD) - GeForce GTX 460 1GB (200 USD) It's sad that a full five years later, CPU performance/USD has barely moved at all. RAM is half the cost now, SSDs a quarter the cost. Not sure about how GPUs have developed? (Edit: The GTX 960 which today also costs 200 USD seems to be about twice as fast as the GTX 460.)
  • Grishnakh 11y ago
    It's just another facet of the Lost Decade that we're in.
  • facepalm 11y ago
    GPUs have developed a lot. I had a high-end card a couple of years ago, and now I can barely run Elite: Dangerous. For the upcoming VR headsets I would definitely need a new GPU. Apple doesn't even have a computer on offer that would be powerful enough for the VR headsets (Oculus/Vive). 8GB RAM is also the bare minimum.
  • piva00 11y ago
    GPUs are much better now since GTX 460 but that's all you'd need to upgrade in this computer (and some storage) if you wanted to play current AAA games in 1080p or even at 1440p.
  • Spooky23 11y ago
    You represent the 5% of PC consumers. The average person goes to Walmart/Bestbuy/BJ's/Staples and spends $475 on some shitbox laptop. The 25th percentile user (ie. millions of people) probably spent $275-325. That average person who bought that average PC in 2011 has an aging HP/Dell/Asus laptop with a failing battery, $30 Celeron or AMD processor, 2GB memory, integrated graphics, a 500GB 5400rpm disk and integrated graphics.
    • slantyyz 11y ago
      I still have my 2008 plastic Macbook refurb that I still use to browse the web. I had the pre-release Win 10/64 on it for a while, and it actually ran faster than OSX did on that machine (in my experience, Windows runs faster on Mac than OSX itself, but ymmv). And keep in mind that my Macbook pretty much got left behind by OSX after Lion.
• danielvf 11y ago
  This is classic trolling, plain and simple. The head of marketing thinks that using a competitor's product is "sad". In response, this article calls Apple: "Insensitive". Offensive. "Hypocritical". "Insulting". And worst of all, promoting inequality by building high quality, expensive products and forgetting the needs of the poor. It's an article designed to produce a response.
• draw_down 11y ago
  I agree that this was tone-deaf of them, I just find it fascinating that we picked this one instance of tech industry rich guy tone-deafness. Seems to be getting a lot of play for some reason. But it's everywhere if you look.
• tombert 11y ago
  Did nothing interesting happen in the tech world today? This is such a non-story, it's really weird that this is on the front-page twice.
  • dublinben 11y ago
    Pornhub launched a new VR channel for 180 and 360 degree content. Tinder Adds “Swipe The Vote” so you can hook up with your candidate. You decide whether either of these are more deserving.
• NikolaeVarius 11y ago
  I swear, if a modern tech company went up and said 'We think you should buy our product", someone would start yelling about how its insulting how a company is endorising capitalism and materialism. We've gone from "Won't somebody think of the children" to "Won't somebody think of every single possible group that is possible to somehow offend in some way"
  • praptak 11y ago
    It is intellectually dishonest to equate endorsing ones product with mocking people who are too poor to use it.
    • zepto 11y ago
      It's dishonest to assert that Apple mocked people who are too poor to use their products.
  • wrong_variable 11y ago
    No. What apple is saying today is something that it has always said - but its only recently that people in america are too poor to buy american products. I grew up around windows and linux, and whenever I tell that in a job interview - people think I am not being serious since "real developers" use mac. In my first software job - I was told to abandon my personal cheap linux and use the company's brand new expensive apple - even though I was more productive on my cheap linux. Apple has always been like that, its just that most people who come from money do not hear it. Edit: Also you will notice this in poorer countries - a strong ecosystem for recycling exists everywhere outside of the US/UK. When I brought my first bike in the UK, I wanted to repair it and was told to just ditch it and get a new one ! It was extremely odd to me since I expected that bike to last at-least 20 years. When my 3 year old laptop stopped working - I had it repaired rather than buy a newer one - even though repairing was almost as expensive as getting a new one. It just fell really wrong ditching a laptop rather than repairing it. Maybe you are right - western societies do worship materialism.
    • kzrdude 11y ago
• drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  If anything its a fairly strong statement on the ruggedness of the PC platform. I have a 2500k i5 in my old desktop. With a new-ish videocard I play all the newest AAA games at high quality. Its incredible how the x86 world really hasn't had any huge performance bumps and how a Q1 2011 CPU is still competitive. Also, there's the larger narrative of people buying tablets and putting off PC upgrades, so the PC ages. Don't worry Apple, you're still getting their money. Its just people aren't ready to replace a general purpose computer that they control and can run pretty much everything with a walled garden mobile device designed to get ad impressions and consume media. If anything, this is Apple's frustration. They have all this success but people and businesses keep buying PCs. They'll never crack this market. They're too invested in the Jobsian "closed" ecosystem philosophy to be as agile as the PC platform. Mocking those who don't drink their kool-aid just makes them look like sore winners. edit: I'm aware I can buy a newer chip, but from a single core vs single core perspective its not that much faster. Very little consumer software is properly multi-threaded so this is why my expensive work computer with the newest i7 doesnt feel any faster than my 5 year old desktop at home. Most things are pegged to one core and at the end of the day single core performance is what's going to matter.
  • acqq 11y ago
    > I have a 2500k i5 in my old desktop. > Its incredible how the x86 world really hasn't had any huge performance bumps and how a Q1 2011 CPU is still competitive. Actually you can have twice as fast desktop CPU today than your 2500k, and not for some number crunching you'll maybe never need (even though it's the most important thing for others) but for such common tasks like compiling the code: http://techreport.com/r.x/skylake/legacy1-qtbench.gif http://techreport.com/r.x/skylake/legacy1-qtbench.gif Not bad at all for the times when the hardware speedups are getting harder. But it's good that even the newest games don't expect only the latest CPU.
    • venomsnake 11y ago
      Where is the doubled single core performance? We have more cores now, but they are almost as fast as 3-4 years ago.
    • 11y ago
• dcustodio 11y ago
  Some people need to feel offended just as I need my morning coffee. I'm not even counting how old is my pc/laptop and that's the thing I like about PCs - there's hardly anything new that triggers my Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
• snowwrestler 11y ago
  Yes there are things that are sad about it. A 5-year-old PC is probably not running a recent version of Windows, and has a higher likelihood of being compromised. And if a person wants a new computer but can't afford it, that is sad too. That said, it was an obviously stupid stat for Schiller to cite. But now we're going to be subjected to a long series of Apple-bashing articles that overreach in the opposite direction. By the end of today we'll see multiple "actually, I'm proud to be running 5-year-old PC" posts. Why? Because when mining for pageviews, there are few veins as rich as bashing Apple. Edit to add: If we want to talk about the tech industry and poor people, let's do so. How many new companies are variations of "let us bring things to your door for you for an extra fee" or "let's give you personalized service so you don't have to go shopping/ride a bus/interact with a human"?
  • trey-jones 11y ago
    I'm proud to be running my almost-seven-year-old PC, though I think it is about time for an upgrade. I also have a 2013 Macbook Pro, which is more than adequate for work. I'm not exactly poor, and I abhor the way the media runs away with this kind of comment. But I also get a little peeved at overzealous marketing that takes advantage of people's ignorance. Convincing people that their 5 year old PC no longer meets their needs (when it probably does) is pretty similar to convincing some poor sucker to switch to your super duper maximum strength 4G Long Term Evolution wireless network because you can have 20G of data per month, when you actually only use 0.5G of data per month.
  • Mikeb85 11y ago
    A 5 year old PC is likely running Windows 7, which still receives upgrades, is supported, and is quite secure. Of course, all Windows 7 PCs received a free upgrade path to Windows 10. So there's no reason they couldn't be running the most recent Windows, without spending a dime. Of course, they could also be running something like Ubuntu (Linux counter puts the number at 73 million, W3Counter at 2.58% of all devices, or just under half OSX's numbers in that counting method), in which case they'd also likely be running a recent OS, one which is arguably more secure than either Windows or OSX. I don't think it's 'offensive' what Schiller says. But it does speak to Apple's mentality, where planned obsolescence and profit trumps all, and the faithful buy into it...
• apatters 11y ago
  If there's something sad about that fact, it's that the industry has delivered so little value in the past 5 years that not many people feel compelled to upgrade!
  • slantyyz 11y ago
    > If there's something sad about that fact, it's that the industry has delivered so little value in the past 5 years that not many people feel compelled to upgrade! The glass half-full response? The industry has delivered so much value in the past 5-8 years that not many people feel compelled to upgrade!
    • massysett 11y ago
      Exactly. I haven't upgraded my washing machine or refrigerator in the last 5 years either. The people Schiller was sneering at view PCs as appliances, and they don't watch Apple press conferences anyway.
• facepalm 11y ago
  I can be "not wrong" and sad at the same time. A newer PC would likely be much faster, resulting in less stress and less wasted time.
• johnhattan 11y ago
  Actually, my main development tower is about nine years old. And in that time, I've upgraded the processor, doubled the memory, upgraded the hard drive to an SSD, switched the video card twice, upped the number of connected monitors from one to three, and upgraded the OS from 32-bit Vista to 64-bit Windows 10. It was pretty leading edge when I built it, and it's still pretty leading edge today. What's sad is the expectation that I should throw my computer away every 18 months.
  • optforfon 11y ago
    Once you replace the motherboard it'll be a true modern day Ship of Theseus
    • Caprinicus 11y ago
      Unless he's on AMD and the processor upgrade was very minor, he almost certainly did. It's odd when people say "my computer is a decade old and I've only had to replace every single part multiple times over look at how green I'm being". It's the exact same thing as buying a new computer a couple times, just in smaller increments and with parts that are less likely to be recycled on their own.
      • johnhattan 11y ago
        Yep, AMD. And the only thing I got rid of were the video cards, which I sold on ebay. I put the old drive in an external case and used it to archive old engineering projects. Kept the original monitor and added the other two. I did have to trash my keyboard after I spilled coffee on it, though :)
  • slantyyz 11y ago
    I try to overspend on my computers to ensure that I have a computer that can last at least five years. I loved the Macbook Pro unibodies because they were expandable. My 2011 MBP had its memory upgraded and maxed out as prices came down, and its storage upgraded to larger and faster drives and SSDs as prices came down. If it weren't for one thing, it would have still been my main computer and delayed my switch to Windows. The infamous overheating problem with my model of MBP turned it into a brick a few months before Apple acknowledged the defect and announced a repair program. The replacement part was known to have the same defect (I already had my logic board replaced once), and being out of AppleCare, there was no way in hell I was paying >500 out of pocket for yet another defective board. So I just switched to a Windows machine since nothing I did was OS dependent anyways. Granted I would have switched when the Macbook Pro got unusable (unibodies are gone and don't like the new soldered on approach), but I think that wouldn't have happened until at least 2018.
• busterarm 11y ago
  Still running a desktop with a Q9650 and 8GB RAM. Runs fine.
• fit2rule 11y ago
  You know what makes me really happy? Any computer being used for fun/interesting/productive things, not just 'the latest ones'. As a die-hard retrocomputing enthusiast with far more old computers in my basement than new, I'm biased. But I sure think that the time has come for the compute industry to start highlighting the need for lesser computing power, but yet still more productive computing. 8-bit computers are awesome. 16-bit machines superb! Get yourself set up with these systems and you can entertain yourself for hours and hours. 8-bit is a great way to learn software development - 2 hours of 8-bit coding a week will keep you sharper than sharp when the time comes to go back to the hipstertools-de-jour. (I kid, I kid.) Point is this, folks: old computers never die - their users do.
• colund 11y ago
  In times of climate change debate I think Apple is doing the wrong thing here, encouraging buy and throw away mentality increasing waste.
  • danielvf 11y ago
    We definitely need a strong reduction in the introduction of new technology that replaces old, still working hardware. This is so wasteful. Along with this, we need centrally planned production of consumer goods to control the pace of change and prevent overproduction, and these goods need to be have government set prices to insure that everyone can afford them.
    • wooter 11y ago
      Because the USSR had no pollution or poor people... /s
  • zepto 11y ago
    You clearly didn't watch the keynote, since a significant part of it was about unprecedented programs to reuse and recycle their hardware.
    • ams6110 11y ago
      Recycling can be a net environmental negative, plus you still have the environmental impact of creating the replacement unit. Not replacing something that still works is way better than replacing it even if you recycle the old unit.
      • zepto 11y ago
        That's why Apple prioritizes reuse over recycling.
    • whitegrape 11y ago
      The phrase "reduce reuse recycle" is actually a pyramid of effectiveness. The best thing is to reduce your consumption entirely, which in this case translates to not producing or buying new hardware you don't need.
• jaimex2 11y ago
  There is however something sad about buying products to not look poor.
• kps 11y ago
  My main home machine is an 8-year-old Mac Pro running Snow Leopard. Apple today sells nothing that could replace it, let alone improve on it.
• emp_ 11y ago
  The only thing not lasting more than 5 years in my 20+ years owning computers are Macs, other iDevices and PCs are much, much stabler. Macbook Pro 2008 (died in 3 years), iMac 27 2010 (died in 4.8 years), Macbook Air 2013 (dying) and Mac Mini 2012 (dying) are the reason why I always end up coming back to my 2010 gaming PC and 2010 HTPC, the ones to break the 5+ year mark without a major hardware failure.
• parenthesis 11y ago
  Until earlier this year I was still making heavy use of a Powerbook from 2004. I only stopped using it because the graphics hardware started to go funny. I sold its battery, memory and power supply to someone still using a slightly older Powerbook.
• yq 11y ago
  semi-Related:iCar release date rumours, features and images: Apple CEO Tim Cook comments on Apple Car rumours http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/will-apple-make-icar-project-titan-rumour-roundup-bmw-tesla-tim-cook-3425394/ http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/will-apple-make-icar-pr... Reading related news is interesting. Imagine Apple applies its tactics on their cars: You probably need a new apple designed plugin other than the universal one, special tools to change flat tires and/or update the exterior slightly to market therefore driving a 5-year-old car is sad.
• PaulHoule 11y ago
  The main problem I see is Intel and Microsoft have given up on power users and it is all Apple envy and phone envy, no wonder people don't buy new PCs. Back in the 0s I had a policy of never rehabilitating an old PC because a new PC was better in every way. The other day a friend brought a Macbook from 2007 to me with a busted HDD and I put an ssd I had laying around in and we got Win10 running on it with no drama and no Apple malware (iTunes, boot camp, etc.) It feel faster than a skylake machine with one of those useless hybrid hard drives and after puffing some hcfc gas through the fan it is great. Any and or pre core 2 machine would go to the trash, I would not even donate it to the poor, but frankly broadwell and skylake are just an excuse to reduce the io slots to put manufacturers of gfx cards. They say customers get better battery life but software screws that up if they really tried it and the most you can get is spend a lot of money on a thin and light machine that the doorman can slide under the hotel or get a 2 in 1 machine just because you need a trackpad on a touchpad machine and have a fight over if and where you stow it with the stewardess just to have another reason to get arrested at your destination. I mean, even IBM sells 360 chips that clock over 5 that use water cooling. It is not that hard.
• oldmanjay 11y ago
  I'm not a fan of moralistic handwringing, particularly when it's brought about by uncharitable interpretations of what is clearly just marketing. This and the related articles are such poor quality that it makes me sad to see them get so much traction here. It's the sort of thing I'd expect at dailytech or slashdot.
• atomical 11y ago
  Is there anything sad about using a 5 year old mac? I'm hoping that eventually my mac book pro will last 5-10 years. With multi-core systems, SSDs, and 16 gigs of ram in MBP's do we really need to be upgrading so much? Also, clock speed advances have stalled.
• agumonkey 11y ago
  -- sent from my almost perfect 9yo laptop
• ArenaSource 11y ago
  Last Macbook Pro generation is from 2012... this is really sad, it really is.
  • slantyyz 11y ago
    I may not be a fan of Apple any more, but I don't understand how this is sad. The innards have been upgraded regularly since 2012, and the CPUs and GPUs in the latest 15" models are pretty competitive to everything else on the market not counting machines for gamers.
• c0achmcguirk 11y ago
  "I want to be offended!" signed, people who take offense at a off-hand remark like this. Grow some thicker skin and stop wasting my screen real estate with irrelevant non-stories like this.
• bliti 11y ago
  I use a 4 year old MBP. Does that make me middle class then?
• studentrob 11y ago
  Schiller is marketing his product. This is no different from the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials. There are now two articles on the HN front page about this utterly pedantic topic which boils down to marketing. Unbelievable.
• deleted 11y ago
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• BWStearns 11y ago
  Really this isn't terribly offensive. They're selling a product they think is superior, in their [marketing] minds the world would be a better place if you were pulled from the womb, slapped on the ass, and handed an iPad Pro, to be renewed every generation of gadget. The Apple presentation stage is not the Basilica of St Peter. These are marketing pronouncements, not moral ones and analyzing them as such is such intense naval gazing that it's actually bad for your neck. If Apple hates the poor it's for no reason other than that they're outside their customer base.
• specialp 11y ago
  It is ironic that Apple is mentioning this as I believe this is going to spell the end of their era of massive profits. Phones now are getting to the state where much like PCs, the older phone is good enough, and the new phone is not substantially better. There will always be people buying a phone for .2ghz more CPU or some slightly higher res screen, but the days of rapid evolution of mobile devices are over, and Apple is going to have problems selling someone a $6-800 phone every year or 2.
  • cookiemonsta 11y ago
    But with new OS versions, older phones quickly start to show their age. An iphone 4 or iphone 4s on the latest version of iOS it supports is really sluggish and slow (and no easy way to put iOS6/7 back on it)
    • empressplay 11y ago
      this is by design, though, obviously. providing "upgrades" to previous models incapable of truly supporting them is kind of an Apple trademark
  • 21 11y ago
    A large part of iPhone's market is as a status symbol. As the saying goes, the only thing worse than not having an iPhone is having last year's one.
• sergiotapia 11y ago
  Jesus christ, they are in the business of selling computers. This faux outrage over a salesman trying to sell his computers is gross - what's wrong with people? Now watch as every blog tries to scramble to see who has the most outrage and who is the largest victim.
• tobeportable 11y ago
  http://www.apple.com/environment/ http://www.apple.com/environment/
• rsync 11y ago
  You know what's really sad ? I am using a 2009 octo mac pro, which is now 7 years old and since that date, apple has not released a single product that is compelling enough to upgrade that system.
• tfandango 11y ago
  I'm a little sour on Apple. They say their products are rugged and "built to last", but an iPad is mostly glass which you need to encase in a giant rubber protective case if you don't want the screen shattered. Even then they are easy to break and very costly to fix, to the point now where it barely makes sense to fix it over replace it. Self-Repair is less expensive but so far I'm 50/50 on successes. I would say they are built to last, until the next one comes out.
  • secstate 11y ago
    The killer part is that it's only expensive to repair because Apple has opted not to streamline a repair pipeline. There is absolutely no way a digitizer glued to a piece of glass costs $500 otherwise they'd never make another iPad. But if they price the part hideously expensively it makes buying a new one a no-brainer. Working in a school for a few years, I was amazed how easily and inexpensively I could replace screens and memory on 2008-era white macbooks when I had access to school channels for parts priced at cost (or close enough). I think we had access to those channels as a stipulation in a state contract to buy assloads of those machines for every kid in the state.
• existencebox 11y ago
  Perhaps I have some wires crossed from too much time as a sysadmin, but I take a 5 year old (+) PC (or any machine, really) as a mark of pride, not any bit of shame whatsoever. It speaks to a high degree of reliability which often speaks well of the operator (even if just "choosing robust hardware" is a component of this) Some stories to add some color to this: Ran a very primitive file sharing server for my university on a dual P(2 or 3, don't quite remember) machine that was probably around a decade old by the time they finally ended up retiring it. My home fileserver is a ~10 TB 4U monster, running on (conveniently) 5 year old hardware and very boring FBSD. Outside of moving apartments, it has not had unplanned downtime once, I will continue using it as long as this is true and would be sad if I didn't get another good few years out of it. I _WISH_ I could get the same lifetime out of desktop PCs but I tend to find assorted parts failing at an asymptotic rate around 3-5 years. The world in which we all use <5 year old hardware is a sad one, to be avoided, to my eyes. (To clarify, I don't mean this in any luddite sense, I don't believe tech should stop moving forward, but I long for more robust products with longer viable lifespans, such that one can make a choice to upgrade rather than waiting for the inevitable.)
  • NEDM64 11y ago
    That's not a PC (Personal Computer), it's a server. You are thinking about hardware, Apple is talking about the whole computer.
    • existencebox 11y ago
      You're right, but I was not trying to make a 1:1 comparison, but saying that properties servers seem to have in spades I'd really appreciate seeing in other markets, but that segment seems rarely catered to. (Let me gesture as well to my 2.5 year old phone whose irreplaceable battery is currently ballooning) My statement addressed the "whole computer" as well, although the FS example was very much a special niche tool, I'd go so far as to say 90% of novel software features that have necessitated hardware refreshes in the last... decade? I could probably live without. This may be mildly hyperbole, but I hope the spirit of my statement comes across. I want to spend less time replacing/fixing my platforms and more time with them "just working".
• chasing 11y ago
  I, too, am shocked that a computer company would communicate that their new computing devices are better than the old ones people already own. Shocked.
• compactmani 11y ago
  600 million PC users discovered that running a lightweight unix distribution/DE and not allowing javascript made the life expectancy of their computers triple. Or so I dream.
• flyinghamster 11y ago
  As someone who just picked up a reconditioned six-year-old, i7-equipped ThinkPad for a hell of a lot less money than what it would have cost brand-new, I have to laugh. It may not be the Latest and Greatest, but it's still speedy enough to handle anything I'm going to throw at it. The CPU performance curve has flattened out in the last few years, to the point that it's not worth spending lots of money for a modest performance gain. I'll let someone else take the depreciation hit.
  • basch 11y ago
    considering cpu speed has been "good enough since around core 2 duos (late 2006?) the only major improvements since then have been battery life and ssd cost. anyone with a computer from the last 10 years that can support an ssd and 8+gb ram, is probably fine. travel being the exception.
  • NEDM64 11y ago
    You probably did a very bad deal.
• programminggeek 11y ago
  What Phil said worked.
• mrbill 11y ago
  I said this in the other thread.. I just bought a "new to me" laptop. Refurb Thinkpad T420s from 2011. I added 16G RAM, two Intel SSDs, an Ultrabay battery, and an 802.12ac wifi card. Grand total: less than $325. This will be my primary portable for at least 2-3 years, and it's already four years old. Just because I can afford Apple doesn't mean I can justify the 2x price premium, or that "old" hardware isn't capable.
  • kamaal 11y ago
    May I ask from where you bought it and how did you upgrade it. Looks like a very interested configuration.
    • e15ctr0n 11y ago
      There's a lot of good stuff on eBay and Craigslist.
    • mrbill 11y ago
      I tend to get my refurb Thinkpads from arrowdirect.com. You can use the code ARROW for 20% off. I ordered this one as 4G/128SSD but already had the RAM on hand to upgrade it to 16G. Part sources: (if you want to upgrade from the 128G) Intel Pro 1500 180G: $55 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Pro-1500-180-GB-2-5-SSD-Internal-Solid-State-Drive-SSDSC2BF180A4H-/191728007943 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Pro-1500-180-GB-2-5-SSD-Intern... (optional) Intel 310 80G mSATA SSD: $30 http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-310-Series-80GB-mSATA-SSD-SSDMAEMC080G2-/231812886235 http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-310-Series-80GB-mSATA-SSD-SSDM... Ultrabay battery: $28 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Battery-43-3-Cell-Bay-Lenovo-Genuine-FRU-0A36310-NIB-/141898955475 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Battery-43-3-Cell-Ba... Intel 7260 802.11ac MiniPCIe wifi card: $28 http://www.amazon.com/Intel-7260-HMWG-R-Wireless-AC-Bluetooth-Mounting/dp/B00MY9S692 http://www.amazon.com/Intel-7260-HMWG-R-Wireless-AC-Bluetoot... An external USB3 enclosure for the Ultrabay DVDRW drive will run around $30 on Amazon. To install the Intel 7260 card, you will need to install a modified "whitelist removed" BIOS, as Lenovo restricts what MiniPCIe cards can go in their systems by default. The system comes with an 802.11n card (mine was an Intel Centrino 6205). My only complaint about ArrowDirect is that if they have a system model that could have different screen resolutions, you have no way of specifying / requesting certain specs; you get what they pull and send. Every system I've ordered from them (close to ten now) has arrived in near-mint condition; this t420s would be amazingly perfect if not for a scuff of the rubberized paint/coating on the top lid (which doesn't matter to me one bit).
• reacweb 11y ago
  I have a HP Pavilion Elite m9458fr bought in july 2009 for 416€ (on eBay hp_marketplace_fr). I only need a silent reliable computer with a reasonably fast CPU for web development on Linux. I have no need for beefy GPU, I just need to connect 2 displays (23" and 19"). I would like to replace it in order to have USB3 connectors and SATA III HD. I do not find anything on the market for reasonable price. Should I buy a ultra-HD laptop with a magnifying lens ?
• justinholmes 11y ago
  My 5 year old PC has a dual socket Xeon I think that beats any iPad rubbish.
  • NEDM64 11y ago
    How much battery life dos your PC have?
• craigmccaskill 11y ago
  I'm using a ~5 year old PC I built myself and it still outperforms the hardware in any available mac product (desktop, tablet or laptop) that isn't a Mac Pro (starting price $2999,00). I don't have a compelling reason to upgrade until the launch of VR headsets.
  • balls187 11y ago
    I am also using a phone that outperforms the hardware of any available PC that wasn't built in this century. Putting aside the hyperbole, I'm willing to bet the USB 3.0 and TB2 ports on my MBP out perform the ports on your 5-year old PC.
    • craigmccaskill 11y ago
      I actually have 2 USB 3.0 ports. USB 3.0 was first available on ASUS motherboards in late 2009 [1]. Thunderbolt wasn't available at that point but it was unveiled with the Thunderbolt Display, which was July 20th 2011, so coming up fast on 5 years old tech at this point. I personally have no use for 20Gbps transfers so TB2 has zero draw for me to upgrade. Talking about hyperbole, you're comparing brand new hardware vs something that was released in 1999 (so 16 years of moore's law) against the point that the hardware apple uses in it's cutting edge desktops/laptops is pretty comparable to the stuff commercially available 5 years ago, which is a valid point. If Apple wants to shame the market for not upgrading in the last 5 years, maybe they should offer a valid reason to upgrade outside of a marketing campaign appealing to 'want' and additional software features which a recent change actually made free anyway. The idea that I could replace my PC with an iPad pro is just plain wrong. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/174672/Asus_Debut_First_USB_30_Motherboard.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/174672/Asus_Debut_First_USB_3...
      • balls187 11y ago
        My hyperbole was making fun of your silly statement that your 5 year old computer out performs all the hardware that Apple makes[1] My phone is more powerful than any PC[2] I am the richest man in Seattle[3] > The idea that I could replace my PC with an iPad pro is just plain wrong. I'll take your word on that. But that isn't true for all PC users. I have a pretty beefy machine, not the latest and greatest, but a hex-core, 12gb, 960gtx and dual 30" monitors, which I use wholly for gaming. Youtubing, videoing, etc, have all moved to my ipad+appletv, and with my PS4, I finally feel like I have a console that provides a real crisp gaming experience. So I'm ready to no longer maintain my $2k PC, and switch to something like a SteamMachine. [1] if you exclude the MacPro. [2] made before the year 2000 [3] if you exclude the people that have more money than I do.
• agentgt 11y ago
  I interpreted it as "it's sad that those Window users having been using just Windows for 5 or more years and not Mac". IMO He's catering to the audience of Apple enthusiasts (who are the ones that watch Apple events generally) and not making fun of poor people. Its sort of analogous to when Jobs said: "It's like giving a glass of ice water to somebody in hell" -- about iTunes on Windows computers Oh so Jobs thinks Windows users are Evil since they are in hell right?
  • logfromblammo 11y ago
    Methinks Jobs had an overly high opinion of iTunes. Giving iTunes to a Windows user is more like giving a massive, ugly, wooden horse to a Trojan, and it is so incredibly unwieldy that the lintel has to be removed from the city gate to even get it inside. Then a bunch of bearded maniacs come out of it and kill everybody. I can't even tell you how many times I have been murdered in my sleep by iTunes. Okay, well, yes I can--zero. But that doesn't stop me from thinking it might happen one day.
    • agentgt 11y ago
      Yes I agree. Even on my Mac I have seen it take more memory than Spotify and Spotify these days is basically running a Chrome instance. I use VLC for most quicktime/itunes things these days.
• holri 11y ago
  Maybe user of old computers are not poor but: * Do not suffer from avarice? * They do not need the newest shiny toy for their ego and to win recognition? * They don't touch a good running working system? * They want to save CO2 emissions and noble earths? * They have a frugal live? * The know what Eco-sufficiency means? * They know that consumerism does not make happy?
• shanselman 11y ago
  Yikes...My primary PC is 5 years old. Works great.
• SeanDav 11y ago
  I miss my "Turbo" switch that used to be on older PC's. Just press "Turbo" and your PC is good for another couple of years.
• islane 11y ago
  Echoing the comments from others, My "main" pc is about 7 years old running the x58 platform (socket 1366) - it easily outperforms my work-supplied development laptop. For the uninitiated, the ebay workstations mentioned are typically these ancient x58's. Most support hex core xeons, 24gb ram (or 48gb unofficially, more on server boards and some workstations), and a pile of PCI-express lanes. As such, you can easily add in PCI-express m.2 SSDs, USB 3/3.1, and GPU's to your heart's content. The takeaway is that old pc tech can be had at a fraction the cost of new hardware with comparable performance. I understand the marketing nonsense from Apple, the "PC does what" consortium, and hardware vendors on the whole - but there is nothing sad about owning an old pc. The reality is that the best performance for the price lies in "obsolete" platforms.
• scarface74 11y ago
  Thinking of all of the computers I've had since 2007, all of them are usable and still in use at least once a week. 2006 era Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66Ghz. Run Windows 7 gave it to my mom. She still uses it. 2009 era Sony Viao - Core Duo 1.66Ghz, 2Gb RAM. Windows 7. My son uses it for Office and MineCraft 2009 Dell Pentium Dusl Core 2Ghz, 4Gb of RAM. It's still my only laptop. The display is 1600x900 and is still better than many cheap laptops. The battery is crap though. 2011 Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz laptop. My wife's computer. It's still feels fast. My workhouse is a 3Ghz I3 with 6Gb of RAM. Bought in 2012.
• gd2 11y ago
  It seems a somewhat strained interpretation to view this as Apple is anti-poor people. But it does point out that Apple is losing touch with what people do with personal computing power. Phone are much better then five years ago, computers not so much. I'd much rather spend my dollars where the major improvement in computing technology is, then spending to upgrade a desktop to view thing almost the same as before.
• ayb 11y ago
  I'm using a MacBook Pro from late 2011. Most of the actual machine specs (i.e. processor and max RAM) have barely changed in 5 years. I put 16 Gb in my laptop 5 years ago and it's still the most you can squeeze into a 13" MacBook Pro. It's sad (and somewhat telling) that Apple has not packed more power into this form factor over the past 5 years.
• jvagner 11y ago
  If your child's school only had 5 year old computers, you'd probably think, "Huh, it'd be better if this school had newer computers."
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• trollingineeer 11y ago
  Only took 3 days to publish a piece like this? SOCIAL JUSTICE is slowing down it seems.
• balls187 11y ago
  Apple v PC flame war still lives on.
• balls187 11y ago
  I believe that an iPad (or comparable Android Tablet) is better for most computer users than any low/mid-tier 5-year old PC. With PC's you can upgrade them, and make tweaks to squeeze out every bit of performance, but by and large for most people, when taking into account that mobile content consumption is on the rise, a tablet is a better upgrade than a new PC. Tasks like email, text, video, music, photography, facebook, are pretty much now done via mobile phone. For these people, PCs are anachronistic.
• Overtonwindow 11y ago
  I agree with this piece. I have long been upset at Apple's forced obsolesce policy, and creating the notion that devices are disposable. I still have a Macbook from 2009, and another from 2012, that I am doing everything in my power to upgrade and avoid the forced slow down. Likewise with my iPad and phone. I resist the persistent upgrade requests to the OS. Not because I am blase about security issues, or not wanting bugs to be fixed, but because those fixes and upgrades come with a cost: premature, forced obsolescence.
• rabboRubble 11y ago
  Hahahahahhahahahahah... my main machine is a Macbook Pro, Mid-2009. Going on 7 years old. Hahahahahahah.
• jitendrac 11y ago
  I am using 7 year old pc with single upgrade(motherboard),I have no reason to buy new!!!! I have no reason to buy any expensive apple laptop or ipad.
• wedesoft 11y ago
  The e-waste stream and the throwaway consumer culture is what's really sad.