8 ms·

I'd disagree, no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. If the kids all have iPhones, then they have parents who aren't very good at not buying things they can't

by kdamken 11y ago

I'd disagree, no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. If the kids all have iPhones, then they have parents who aren't very good at not buying things they can't afford and teaching their kids that worth doesn't come from possessions.

Ntrails 11y ago
At a guess a lot of the phones are bought on payment plans with carriers - so the up front cost is relatively manageable but you're paying for 2 years. This kind of deal is much much harder to value correctly and for sure people are looking at it as a "we can find $40 a month" rather than "that's equivalent to a price of $900 - can we afford that?".
- kdamken 11y ago
  I'm sad that I can't disagree with you. Most people don't realize how much those monthly (and daily) expenses add up. A huge failing of our society is that we don't teach people how to be responsible with money. All they see are ads telling them to buy more, spend all your money, keep up with the Joneses. Either you have parents who teach you, or you figure it out on your own. And for the poorer people, it's just a cycle where they don't know, so their kids don't know.
  - Scea91 11y ago
    I just wonder sometimes if it is really that hard to figure this on their own. We can't teach every basic thing to everyone. I would hope that people are able to figure such obvious things on their own. It is really strange that they don't.
    - kdamken 11y ago
      Most people just don't know any better. And when the social norm is spending all your money (and then some) on things you don't need, most people don't even realize there's another option. I myself didn't realize until I stumbled upon Mr. Money Mustache two years ago (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/), and it kind of woke me up. Now I buy way less, save at least half my income every month, and am overall much happier.
petra 11y ago
>> no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. It's not that simple. I once heard a lecture from a psychologist researching the effects brands have on teenagers, and she said owning a brand can deeply affect a teenager's self-assurance, create anxieties, etc.
- cableshaft 11y ago
  I didn't have brand name anything in high school. I got through it okay. Wasn't the most popular kid by any means, but I was shy to begin with (I didn't start being more outgoing until I started going to regular meetups recently, years after I had owned 'status symbol' iPhones). I'm not denying that other teens can and do feel the way your psychologist said, but I'm pretty sure it's a learned behavior, not something innate, and can be unlearned.
  - petra 11y ago
    I'm not expert in that subject, but the psychologist, who saw this deeply, over many different kids, saw it as a big problem. An i'm sure she knew full well what's innate/learnable and how practical is that unlearning process.
- kdamken 11y ago
  I remember, it's tough to be a teenager. It's a shame they have to go through that. But at the end of the day if you can't afford lunch, you need to reevaluate your priorities. Maybe get a slightly older iPhone, or one of the many cheaper but comparable Androids.
  - skywhopper 11y ago
    Just because the school provides free lunch to everyone does not mean the family cannot afford lunch. At some point it becomes cheaper to just give everyone lunch than to deal with the hassle of deciding which kid owes $1.55 and which doesn't. In fact, providing free lunch to all children in public school is an extremely cheap way of marginally reducing kids' awareness of who's poor and who isn't.
EliRivers 11y ago
But worth does come from possessions. Your worth is based on the opinion of other people, and they judge you based on what you have and what your job title is.
- kdamken 11y ago
  Financial worth comes from your net worth, yes. But your worth as a human being isn't related to any of that.
  - EliRivers 11y ago
    I hear this a lot, but the evidence indicates that the majority of humanity judge a person's worth on their assets, money and job title. Sometimes, physical appearance as well.
    - leni536 11y ago
      You don't have to listen to random strangers' judgments though.
      - EliRivers 11y ago
        And what about all the people who are not random strangers? The people who can have a material effect on my life and will do so, in part, on their assessment of my worth? Shall I ignore them as well? What does that get me? The points I was making without spelling them out explicitly, before being confronted with the sad fact that too many people appear to have been watching the Hallmark Channel, are that there is no such thing as intrinsic worth, people make decisions that affect you based in part upon their assessment of your worth, and a lot of that assessment is based on possessions, money, job title and physical appearance. Choosing to ignore this doesn't make it go away.
        leni536 11y ago
        Well, my friends really don't care what kind of phone I have.

by kdamken 11y ago

Ntrails 11y ago

At a guess a lot of the phones are bought on payment plans with carriers - so the up front cost is relatively manageable but you're paying for 2 years. This kind of deal is much much harder to value correctly and for sure people are looking at it as a "we can find $40 a month" rather than "that's equivalent to a price of $900 - can we afford that?".

kdamken 11y ago
I'm sad that I can't disagree with you. Most people don't realize how much those monthly (and daily) expenses add up. A huge failing of our society is that we don't teach people how to be responsible with money. All they see are ads telling them to buy more, spend all your money, keep up with the Joneses. Either you have parents who teach you, or you figure it out on your own. And for the poorer people, it's just a cycle where they don't know, so their kids don't know.
- Scea91 11y ago
  I just wonder sometimes if it is really that hard to figure this on their own. We can't teach every basic thing to everyone. I would hope that people are able to figure such obvious things on their own. It is really strange that they don't.
  - kdamken 11y ago
    Most people just don't know any better. And when the social norm is spending all your money (and then some) on things you don't need, most people don't even realize there's another option. I myself didn't realize until I stumbled upon Mr. Money Mustache two years ago (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/), and it kind of woke me up. Now I buy way less, save at least half my income every month, and am overall much happier.

petra 11y ago

>> no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. It's not that simple. I once heard a lecture from a psychologist researching the effects brands have on teenagers, and she said owning a brand can deeply affect a teenager's self-assurance, create anxieties, etc.

cableshaft 11y ago
I didn't have brand name anything in high school. I got through it okay. Wasn't the most popular kid by any means, but I was shy to begin with (I didn't start being more outgoing until I started going to regular meetups recently, years after I had owned 'status symbol' iPhones). I'm not denying that other teens can and do feel the way your psychologist said, but I'm pretty sure it's a learned behavior, not something innate, and can be unlearned.
- petra 11y ago
  I'm not expert in that subject, but the psychologist, who saw this deeply, over many different kids, saw it as a big problem. An i'm sure she knew full well what's innate/learnable and how practical is that unlearning process.
kdamken 11y ago
I remember, it's tough to be a teenager. It's a shame they have to go through that. But at the end of the day if you can't afford lunch, you need to reevaluate your priorities. Maybe get a slightly older iPhone, or one of the many cheaper but comparable Androids.
- skywhopper 11y ago
  Just because the school provides free lunch to everyone does not mean the family cannot afford lunch. At some point it becomes cheaper to just give everyone lunch than to deal with the hassle of deciding which kid owes $1.55 and which doesn't. In fact, providing free lunch to all children in public school is an extremely cheap way of marginally reducing kids' awareness of who's poor and who isn't.

EliRivers 11y ago

But worth does come from possessions. Your worth is based on the opinion of other people, and they judge you based on what you have and what your job title is.

kdamken 11y ago
Financial worth comes from your net worth, yes. But your worth as a human being isn't related to any of that.
- EliRivers 11y ago
  I hear this a lot, but the evidence indicates that the majority of humanity judge a person's worth on their assets, money and job title. Sometimes, physical appearance as well.
  - leni536 11y ago
    You don't have to listen to random strangers' judgments though.
    - EliRivers 11y ago
      And what about all the people who are not random strangers? The people who can have a material effect on my life and will do so, in part, on their assessment of my worth? Shall I ignore them as well? What does that get me? The points I was making without spelling them out explicitly, before being confronted with the sad fact that too many people appear to have been watching the Hallmark Channel, are that there is no such thing as intrinsic worth, people make decisions that affect you based in part upon their assessment of your worth, and a lot of that assessment is based on possessions, money, job title and physical appearance. Choosing to ignore this doesn't make it go away.
      - leni536 11y ago
        Well, my friends really don't care what kind of phone I have.