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This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his

by bgraves 17y ago

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learning/schools/how-google-saved-a-school.html?play http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni... The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a picture."

soult 17y ago
That's horrible! Also: How the hell did they finance handing out Mac laptops to all their students?
- vaksel 17y ago
  through sale of kiddy porn?
- bgraves 17y ago
  Well, the video and article mentions Google and Google Docs about a dozen times...I think Google provided some or all of the financing. From their website: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm Showcased by Google as highly innovative school [http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf]
- chrischen 17y ago
  I thought they were using laptops on carts. My school does that too. Did they give every student a computer to take home?
f_sav 17y ago
So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care). I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it somehow, is a recipe for such situations happening one day or the other (of course that doesn't make it any more OK).
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- cgranade 17y ago
  As opposed to pocket electronics with integrated microphones? Think of all the embarassment that has occured due to pocket dialing, and now consider if that had been intentional. It's harder to block a microphone than a camera lens, too, and less obvious where the microphone is.
  - f_sav 17y ago
    True. At least with cameras there's an obvious way of disabling it. Yet there's just no enough market pressure to get manufacturers to include a clear electronic switch-off mechanism. Maybe with a few more stories like this one...
    - cgranade 17y ago
      I think one reason for that is because of the sheer number of sensors included in modern devices. It would greatly clutter interfaces and physical form factors to include privacy switches for each kind of sensor.
      - f_sav 17y ago
        Makes sense (esp. these last few years where device come with the least physical switch possible, e.g. the iPhone), but given the benefit, I personally wouldn't mind the added clutter. One good first step would be to cut the link to the microphone on lid close (for a laptop or a cellphone, say). Or have a global "privacy switch" which would still allow apps to run to but electrically cut off the privacy-invading sensors (mostly gps, camera, microphone... other?). Just dreaming out loud here...
3dFlatLander 17y ago
To be fair to the school shown in that particular documentary, they weren't looking at the students through a webcam. It looks like they're using a remote desktop program to look at the students desktop. He explained that many students use the webcam program as a mirror to look at themselves or just mess around.
- mkyc 17y ago
  The students and parents are also presumably fully aware. If on the other hand they were unaware, the student's mistake of opening a webcam program would not reduce culpability.
motters 17y ago
I've seen a lot of stuff on the web, but that video is truly shocking. The complete lack of concern for the privacy/dignity either of the children or their families and the complacent attitude of the IT guy is really disheartening to see. I think it shows how organizations can become enchanted with the technology, whilst forgetting some of the most basic human values.
vault_ 17y ago
That's interesting to see from an administrator point of view, but also quite disturbing. The school I go to now has a similar program (Macbooks for every student), and the Remote Desktop program is used on our laptops as well. It used to be a serious point of contention between the administration and the students. A large number of students actually covered up the webcams on their computer with tape or similar to stop people from watching them. In theory, the requirements for monitoring were that every once in a while, everyone's computer would have its desktop monitored without their knowledge. If they were doing anything that they weren't supposed to (e.g. on Facebook (via proxies), or looking at porn) Photo Booth, the webcam application, would be opened and a screenshot would be taken, capturing both the offending behavior and the offender. I know that on a computer provided by the school, any preconception of privacy should be abandoned, but it still seems like a bit much. It seems to me that simply logging activity and then punishing the student after it had been reviewed would be easier and more transparent.
flogic 17y ago
I think this is a clear indication that we need an IT code of ethics. Yeah it's cute that as a programmer or administrator you have all this power, but we don't have the right to invade people's privacy.

by bgraves 17y ago

soult 17y ago

That's horrible! Also: How the hell did they finance handing out Mac laptops to all their students?

vaksel 17y ago
through sale of kiddy porn?
bgraves 17y ago
Well, the video and article mentions Google and Google Docs about a dozen times...I think Google provided some or all of the financing. From their website: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm Showcased by Google as highly innovative school [http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf]
chrischen 17y ago
I thought they were using laptops on carts. My school does that too. Did they give every student a computer to take home?

f_sav 17y ago

So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care). I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it somehow, is a recipe for such situations happening one day or the other (of course that doesn't make it any more OK).

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
cgranade 17y ago
As opposed to pocket electronics with integrated microphones? Think of all the embarassment that has occured due to pocket dialing, and now consider if that had been intentional. It's harder to block a microphone than a camera lens, too, and less obvious where the microphone is.
- f_sav 17y ago
  True. At least with cameras there's an obvious way of disabling it. Yet there's just no enough market pressure to get manufacturers to include a clear electronic switch-off mechanism. Maybe with a few more stories like this one...
  - cgranade 17y ago
    I think one reason for that is because of the sheer number of sensors included in modern devices. It would greatly clutter interfaces and physical form factors to include privacy switches for each kind of sensor.
    - f_sav 17y ago
      Makes sense (esp. these last few years where device come with the least physical switch possible, e.g. the iPhone), but given the benefit, I personally wouldn't mind the added clutter. One good first step would be to cut the link to the microphone on lid close (for a laptop or a cellphone, say). Or have a global "privacy switch" which would still allow apps to run to but electrically cut off the privacy-invading sensors (mostly gps, camera, microphone... other?). Just dreaming out loud here...

3dFlatLander 17y ago

To be fair to the school shown in that particular documentary, they weren't looking at the students through a webcam. It looks like they're using a remote desktop program to look at the students desktop. He explained that many students use the webcam program as a mirror to look at themselves or just mess around.

mkyc 17y ago
The students and parents are also presumably fully aware. If on the other hand they were unaware, the student's mistake of opening a webcam program would not reduce culpability.

motters 17y ago

I've seen a lot of stuff on the web, but that video is truly shocking. The complete lack of concern for the privacy/dignity either of the children or their families and the complacent attitude of the IT guy is really disheartening to see. I think it shows how organizations can become enchanted with the technology, whilst forgetting some of the most basic human values.

vault_ 17y ago

That's interesting to see from an administrator point of view, but also quite disturbing. The school I go to now has a similar program (Macbooks for every student), and the Remote Desktop program is used on our laptops as well. It used to be a serious point of contention between the administration and the students. A large number of students actually covered up the webcams on their computer with tape or similar to stop people from watching them. In theory, the requirements for monitoring were that every once in a while, everyone's computer would have its desktop monitored without their knowledge. If they were doing anything that they weren't supposed to (e.g. on Facebook (via proxies), or looking at porn) Photo Booth, the webcam application, would be opened and a screenshot would be taken, capturing both the offending behavior and the offender. I know that on a computer provided by the school, any preconception of privacy should be abandoned, but it still seems like a bit much. It seems to me that simply logging activity and then punishing the student after it had been reviewed would be easier and more transparent.

flogic 17y ago

I think this is a clear indication that we need an IT code of ethics. Yeah it's cute that as a programmer or administrator you have all this power, but we don't have the right to invade people's privacy.