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$35k is a price point where a lot of cars are sold as status symbols: it's the bottom end of the price range for new or certified pre-owned cars from the iconic

$35k is a price point where a lot of cars are sold as status symbols: it's the bottom end of the price range for new or certified pre-owned cars from the iconic luxury brands, and yet it's a price point that is attainable for most white collar professionals. I think Tesla is poised to do quite well in that market. Their marketing is generally very good, and they are not above putting a couple flashy features in the car that no one else has (gull wing doors). The Model 3 may not be able to compete with ICE cars on cost per mile when gas is <$2/gallon, or on maintenance costs, but the Model 3's price point is still one where looking cool is more important than the bottom line.

ams6110 11y ago
Gull wing doors would be a terrible idea.
mikeash 11y ago
As far as price per mile goes, I pay 13 cents per kWh, a bit above the national average, and that makes my Model S about as expensive per mile as a Prius at current gas prices. The Model 3 will be more efficient. Prius running costs in a package that isn't embarrassing and can make it to 60MPH in less than 10 seconds should be pretty compelling.
- mytochar 11y ago
  And a car that fills up while you're sleeping. Still my favorite feature of electric cars.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Indeed. It amuses me to no end that charging is the biggest worry of people unfamiliar with EVs, but is one of their great advantages over a traditional car.
    - eru 11y ago
      For specific use cases.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        For common use cases. It's a small disadvantage on long trips, and a huge advantage the other 50 weeks of the year.
        ams6110 11y ago
        It is a knock-out factor for long trips. I agree that if it meets your needs, an EV is compelling. But let's not try to make it out as something it's not.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Having done several long trips, I strongly disagree. I certainly wouldn't recommend it if your idea of a road trip is eating a sandwich at the wheel and running into the bathroom while you pump gas, but if you actually sit down for your meals and take stretch breaks, charging barely adds any time. I drove DC to South Florida this winter and I'm planning on DC to Montreal this summer and not once do I wish for a gas car.
        eru 11y ago
        Oh, I even agree. For myself, I just rent a car whenever I need one.
ohazi 11y ago
> or on maintenance costs What? Perhaps with the exception of Lexus (Toyota), the iconic luxury brands have abysmal track records for reliability. And when they do need parts, they tend to require slightly special parts that are exorbitantly expensive. In what universe does an electric car, which doesn't even need oil changes, fail to compete with this?
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  In the universe where things that are largely solved problems for the other manufacturers are still pain points for Tesla: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/door-handle-issues-self-fix-by-fuse-pull-re-insertion.15637/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/door-handle-issues-s... Body squeaks and rattles are common too - in a car that can easily hit six digits, I do not want to merely put a hand on the dash and have it squeak and give way.
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    You mean that no other car manufacturer has shipped a novel feature (like Tesla's hiding door handles) which subsequently had problems? In fact, that's a common problem in high-end cars. It's hard to test new stuff that isn't already shipping in volume.
- ams6110 11y ago
  In the $35K+ market, reliability is not a major factor in purchase decisions. All mass-production cars these days are very reliable. Even the ones that are less so, are not that bad. And they all have warranties. Electrics probably win on reliability/maintenance if you compare the numbers in a spreadsheet, but when you get into the "status" car range, it's just not something that's going to be the deciding factor in a purchase, IMO.
carboy 11y ago
35k Status symbol? A V6 Accord Touring with navigation is almost 35K. A Mini Cooper can run close to 40k with options. I'd rather buy a Tesla for 35K than a Honda or Mini any day, that's why I'm putting down a deposit.

ams6110 11y ago

Gull wing doors would be a terrible idea.

mikeash 11y ago

As far as price per mile goes, I pay 13 cents per kWh, a bit above the national average, and that makes my Model S about as expensive per mile as a Prius at current gas prices. The Model 3 will be more efficient. Prius running costs in a package that isn't embarrassing and can make it to 60MPH in less than 10 seconds should be pretty compelling.

mytochar 11y ago
And a car that fills up while you're sleeping. Still my favorite feature of electric cars.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Indeed. It amuses me to no end that charging is the biggest worry of people unfamiliar with EVs, but is one of their great advantages over a traditional car.
  - eru 11y ago
    For specific use cases.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      For common use cases. It's a small disadvantage on long trips, and a huge advantage the other 50 weeks of the year.
      - ams6110 11y ago
        It is a knock-out factor for long trips. I agree that if it meets your needs, an EV is compelling. But let's not try to make it out as something it's not.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Having done several long trips, I strongly disagree. I certainly wouldn't recommend it if your idea of a road trip is eating a sandwich at the wheel and running into the bathroom while you pump gas, but if you actually sit down for your meals and take stretch breaks, charging barely adds any time. I drove DC to South Florida this winter and I'm planning on DC to Montreal this summer and not once do I wish for a gas car.
      - eru 11y ago
        Oh, I even agree. For myself, I just rent a car whenever I need one.

ohazi 11y ago

> or on maintenance costs What? Perhaps with the exception of Lexus (Toyota), the iconic luxury brands have abysmal track records for reliability. And when they do need parts, they tend to require slightly special parts that are exorbitantly expensive. In what universe does an electric car, which doesn't even need oil changes, fail to compete with this?

FireBeyond 11y ago
In the universe where things that are largely solved problems for the other manufacturers are still pain points for Tesla: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/door-handle-issues-self-fix-by-fuse-pull-re-insertion.15637/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/door-handle-issues-s... Body squeaks and rattles are common too - in a car that can easily hit six digits, I do not want to merely put a hand on the dash and have it squeak and give way.
- greglindahl 11y ago
  You mean that no other car manufacturer has shipped a novel feature (like Tesla's hiding door handles) which subsequently had problems? In fact, that's a common problem in high-end cars. It's hard to test new stuff that isn't already shipping in volume.
ams6110 11y ago
In the $35K+ market, reliability is not a major factor in purchase decisions. All mass-production cars these days are very reliable. Even the ones that are less so, are not that bad. And they all have warranties. Electrics probably win on reliability/maintenance if you compare the numbers in a spreadsheet, but when you get into the "status" car range, it's just not something that's going to be the deciding factor in a purchase, IMO.

carboy 11y ago

35k Status symbol? A V6 Accord Touring with navigation is almost 35K. A Mini Cooper can run close to 40k with options. I'd rather buy a Tesla for 35K than a Honda or Mini any day, that's why I'm putting down a deposit.