5 ms·

“No Win, No Fee” So people will begin to submit every little grievance since they won't get charged if they don't 'win' on the chance that they'll get a payout

by delinka 11y ago

“No Win, No Fee” So people will begin to submit every little grievance since they won't get charged if they don't 'win' on the chance that they'll get a payout if they do win. At what point does JaaS stop scaling? Perhaps this one stop on the way to fully digitized contracts? Two things came to mind when I see this (neither of which my Search Fu is successful at finding...): 1)A short story placed in the 'near future' where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email. 2) Recent research into digital contracts for financial systems. JaaS feels like #1 developing from the consumer direction.

fizx 11y ago
It's trivial for companies to not spend resources helping problem customers.
schoen 11y ago
> A short story placed in the 'near future' where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email. I've read that story and think it was by either Cory Doctorow or Charles Stross. There is automated high-volume litigation as a plot point in Stross's Accelerando, but I think that's not the story that you're thinking of. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelera... I think the one you're thinking of features a little girl being sued for benefiting from colonial-era crimes in the Belgian Congo (among other micro-lawsuits).
- nightpool 11y ago
  I've read the story you're talking about, and its definitely by Doctorow, but I googled around for a while without any luck, as well as searching some of the short story collections. I'd be interested if anybody could remember it!
  - schoen 11y ago
    Well, martey found the one I was thinking of (above) -- it turned out to be by Paul Ford.
    - nightpool 11y ago
      Definitely the same story I was thinking about. Maybe Doctorow linked it somewhere? It certainly sits very squarely at the center of his interests in law, copyright, privacy, fatherhood and spec fic. Thanks!
- martey 11y ago
  I think the one you're thinking of features a little girl being sued for benefiting from colonial-era crimes in the Belgian Congo (among other micro-lawsuits). This is Paul Ford's "Nanolaw with Daughter": http://www.ftrain.com/nanolaw.html http://www.ftrain.com/nanolaw.html
  - schoen 11y ago
    Yes, it sure is! Thanks for the reference.
hobbyjogger 11y ago
> At what point does JaaS stop scaling? Perhaps this one stop on the way to fully digitized contracts? Think about the difference between an "AI" capable of checking flight data and identifying delays greater than (X) minutes vs. "true" fully-digitized contracts (i.e., an AI that can reliably determine whether Party Y did indeed use its "reasonable best efforts" to market Product Z). Those two things are actually more distant from each other than an "AI" capable of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors vs. an AI that can pass the Turing test.
enraged_camel 11y ago
>>So people will begin to submit every little grievance since they won't get charged if they don't 'win' on the chance that they'll get a payout if they do win. Just because you take your case to the law firm doesn't mean they have to agree to represent you. In fact, under this model, they would have a strong incentive to not take on cases that don't have a high likelihood of resulting in a win.
- delinka 11y ago
  But then we've returned to the current status quo. Comsumers have to be knowledgeable enough to know when they have a case, or the lawyers are overloaded evaluating frivilous cases.
  - ikeboy 11y ago
    The point that is an automated system could tell which cases are likely frivolous.
trhway 11y ago
>where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email on similar note - automatically hiring 12 (or more if one wants to splurge and reach specific p-value on their verdict) random persons from Mech Turk for producing a quick verdict :)
- mdpopescu 11y ago
  Damn, that is a fantastic idea... I wonder if it's actually against the law in the US? I don't know if the law is explicit about the 12 people being physically in the same room :)
  - schoen 11y ago
    The Sixth Amendment has a geographic requirement that the defendant is entitled to be tried "by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law".
    - schoen 11y ago
      I almost forgot that there is an extremely witty law review article about the problems that this clause might cause in the strange case of a national park that crosses state lines: http://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perfect-crime.pdf http://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perf...
    - icebraining 11y ago
      That's for crimes, but copyright infringement is generally a civil matter.
      - schoen 11y ago
        Good point -- I don't know what rules apply to jury selection and eligibility in civil cases.

by delinka 11y ago

fizx 11y ago

It's trivial for companies to not spend resources helping problem customers.

schoen 11y ago

> A short story placed in the 'near future' where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email. I've read that story and think it was by either Cory Doctorow or Charles Stross. There is automated high-volume litigation as a plot point in Stross's Accelerando, but I think that's not the story that you're thinking of. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelera... I think the one you're thinking of features a little girl being sued for benefiting from colonial-era crimes in the Belgian Congo (among other micro-lawsuits).

nightpool 11y ago
I've read the story you're talking about, and its definitely by Doctorow, but I googled around for a while without any luck, as well as searching some of the short story collections. I'd be interested if anybody could remember it!
- schoen 11y ago
  Well, martey found the one I was thinking of (above) -- it turned out to be by Paul Ford.
  - nightpool 11y ago
    Definitely the same story I was thinking about. Maybe Doctorow linked it somewhere? It certainly sits very squarely at the center of his interests in law, copyright, privacy, fatherhood and spec fic. Thanks!
martey 11y ago
I think the one you're thinking of features a little girl being sued for benefiting from colonial-era crimes in the Belgian Congo (among other micro-lawsuits). This is Paul Ford's "Nanolaw with Daughter": http://www.ftrain.com/nanolaw.html http://www.ftrain.com/nanolaw.html
- schoen 11y ago
  Yes, it sure is! Thanks for the reference.

hobbyjogger 11y ago

> At what point does JaaS stop scaling? Perhaps this one stop on the way to fully digitized contracts? Think about the difference between an "AI" capable of checking flight data and identifying delays greater than (X) minutes vs. "true" fully-digitized contracts (i.e., an AI that can reliably determine whether Party Y did indeed use its "reasonable best efforts" to market Product Z). Those two things are actually more distant from each other than an "AI" capable of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors vs. an AI that can pass the Turing test.

enraged_camel 11y ago

>>So people will begin to submit every little grievance since they won't get charged if they don't 'win' on the chance that they'll get a payout if they do win. Just because you take your case to the law firm doesn't mean they have to agree to represent you. In fact, under this model, they would have a strong incentive to not take on cases that don't have a high likelihood of resulting in a win.

delinka 11y ago
But then we've returned to the current status quo. Comsumers have to be knowledgeable enough to know when they have a case, or the lawyers are overloaded evaluating frivilous cases.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  The point that is an automated system could tell which cases are likely frivolous.

trhway 11y ago

>where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email on similar note - automatically hiring 12 (or more if one wants to splurge and reach specific p-value on their verdict) random persons from Mech Turk for producing a quick verdict :)

mdpopescu 11y ago
Damn, that is a fantastic idea... I wonder if it's actually against the law in the US? I don't know if the law is explicit about the 12 people being physically in the same room :)
- schoen 11y ago
  The Sixth Amendment has a geographic requirement that the defendant is entitled to be tried "by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law".
  - schoen 11y ago
    I almost forgot that there is an extremely witty law review article about the problems that this clause might cause in the strange case of a national park that crosses state lines: http://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perfect-crime.pdf http://www.law.msu.edu/foundations/6-section-1-kalt-the-perf...
  - icebraining 11y ago
    That's for crimes, but copyright infringement is generally a civil matter.
    - schoen 11y ago
      Good point -- I don't know what rules apply to jury selection and eligibility in civil cases.