6 ms·

This is why I started my own company: So nobody could tell me what to do. It's not really even about the money.

by pink_dinner 11y ago

x5n1 11y ago
That's the irony, one wants more autonomy, one usually ends up getting less starting a business.
- jabgrabdthrow 11y ago
  Sounds like a specific failure of the "you" in your statement and not a general criticism of startups as a path to autonomy =]]
  - x5n1 11y ago
    sorry 3rd person you, changed it to one.
- mmatants 11y ago
  Working independently definitely does not save one from BS and playing by the rules. However, I think the main distinction is that it feels less "personal". In a poorly-run hierarchy, having a manager means playing along for someone else more powerful, playing along with their personal politic, etc. That can be very distracting and exhausting, because for less-adequate managers it involves a lot of mental effort. And, importantly, it feels very person-centred rather than craft- or value-centred. Contrast that with freelance work: yes, clients can be very difficult to deal with, and in fact may require more "high touch" interaction. However, at that stage it is just a social contract, customer service, explicitly outlined interaction. And the relationship is transactional from the outset, there is a clear value focus. Plus, one could theoretically fire their client and move on (although that is not always realistic). As another comparison, let's look at a trades job in a highly unionized company: it can actually be quite liberating, because promotion and career track are again detached from specific personal impressions and set to a highly regulated and enforced schedule. People feel empowered, because it is a shield of sorts (albeit one that comes with costs as well).
  - meric 11y ago
    So in poorly run companies, you're selling a style of personal interaction rather than your ability to create value. I'm guessing in poorly run companies the company must resort to over paying for talent, (otherwise they can switch to better managed companies easily) and that premium could be selling the compliance to be poorly managed.
anon987 11y ago
My view has been that someone always works for someone else. Even the most powerful board members answer to shareholders and entrepreneurs answer to their customers - lest they go out of business. Tell me about why you don't think you have to answer to your customers.
- jjn2009 11y ago
  Even when running a business I don't think you necessarily have to answer to customers, and you are certainly not forced to answer to shareholders or board members if the company is not structured in such a way to necessitate that. The only one or thing you absolutely have to answer to is the market, people can complain all they want about whatever they want, but so long as there are people who will open their wallet you really don't need to pay attention. This is completely different from typical boss-employee relationships, you're solving a problem in an autonomous fashion not following orders.
  - timrpeterson 11y ago
    So how does customers!=market
    - Spooky23 11y ago
      As long as the market > 1, you can always fire a customer.
      - christiangenco 11y ago
        Ahh yes, this is a thought I've been struggling with for a while - thank you for the mental clarification.
      - eru 11y ago
        Of course, employees can also always fire their boss, as long as there's another employer waiting.
robertcarter 11y ago
Reminds me of a Jimmy Carr joke: "I was in a taxi when the driver said 'I love my job! I'm my own boss and nobody tells me what to do!'. I said 'Great. Now take a left here!' "
- bduerst 11y ago
  "Small business owners will work 60 hours a week so they don't have to work 40 hours for someone else." is the quote I'm reminded of.
- qb45 11y ago
  Customer isn't the same as boss. When doing something a customer asks for, you are doing something for someone's benefit (usually...). When doing something the boss asks for, well, you may never know whether it makes any sense to anybody at all if the company sufficiently detaches employees from the results of their work. There are places where you just feel like you are wasting time for nothing. Besides that, you can always (but not too often ;)) tell some particularly annoying customer to leave and pick up another one.
enraged_camel 11y ago
While you have more autonomy in some ways, you have less autonomy in others. Instead of a boss, you have clients you need to satisfy if you want to remain in business. And not everyone can be picky when it comes to clients, especially in a competitive market.

This is why I started my own company: So nobody could tell me what to do. It's not really even about the money.

x5n1 11y ago

That's the irony, one wants more autonomy, one usually ends up getting less starting a business.

jabgrabdthrow 11y ago
Sounds like a specific failure of the "you" in your statement and not a general criticism of startups as a path to autonomy =]]
- x5n1 11y ago
  sorry 3rd person you, changed it to one.
mmatants 11y ago
Working independently definitely does not save one from BS and playing by the rules. However, I think the main distinction is that it feels less "personal". In a poorly-run hierarchy, having a manager means playing along for someone else more powerful, playing along with their personal politic, etc. That can be very distracting and exhausting, because for less-adequate managers it involves a lot of mental effort. And, importantly, it feels very person-centred rather than craft- or value-centred. Contrast that with freelance work: yes, clients can be very difficult to deal with, and in fact may require more "high touch" interaction. However, at that stage it is just a social contract, customer service, explicitly outlined interaction. And the relationship is transactional from the outset, there is a clear value focus. Plus, one could theoretically fire their client and move on (although that is not always realistic). As another comparison, let's look at a trades job in a highly unionized company: it can actually be quite liberating, because promotion and career track are again detached from specific personal impressions and set to a highly regulated and enforced schedule. People feel empowered, because it is a shield of sorts (albeit one that comes with costs as well).
- meric 11y ago
  So in poorly run companies, you're selling a style of personal interaction rather than your ability to create value. I'm guessing in poorly run companies the company must resort to over paying for talent, (otherwise they can switch to better managed companies easily) and that premium could be selling the compliance to be poorly managed.

anon987 11y ago

My view has been that someone always works for someone else. Even the most powerful board members answer to shareholders and entrepreneurs answer to their customers - lest they go out of business. Tell me about why you don't think you have to answer to your customers.

jjn2009 11y ago
Even when running a business I don't think you necessarily have to answer to customers, and you are certainly not forced to answer to shareholders or board members if the company is not structured in such a way to necessitate that. The only one or thing you absolutely have to answer to is the market, people can complain all they want about whatever they want, but so long as there are people who will open their wallet you really don't need to pay attention. This is completely different from typical boss-employee relationships, you're solving a problem in an autonomous fashion not following orders.
- timrpeterson 11y ago
  So how does customers!=market
  - Spooky23 11y ago
    As long as the market > 1, you can always fire a customer.
    - christiangenco 11y ago
      Ahh yes, this is a thought I've been struggling with for a while - thank you for the mental clarification.
    - eru 11y ago
      Of course, employees can also always fire their boss, as long as there's another employer waiting.

robertcarter 11y ago

Reminds me of a Jimmy Carr joke: "I was in a taxi when the driver said 'I love my job! I'm my own boss and nobody tells me what to do!'. I said 'Great. Now take a left here!' "

bduerst 11y ago
"Small business owners will work 60 hours a week so they don't have to work 40 hours for someone else." is the quote I'm reminded of.
qb45 11y ago
Customer isn't the same as boss. When doing something a customer asks for, you are doing something for someone's benefit (usually...). When doing something the boss asks for, well, you may never know whether it makes any sense to anybody at all if the company sufficiently detaches employees from the results of their work. There are places where you just feel like you are wasting time for nothing. Besides that, you can always (but not too often ;)) tell some particularly annoying customer to leave and pick up another one.

enraged_camel 11y ago

While you have more autonomy in some ways, you have less autonomy in others. Instead of a boss, you have clients you need to satisfy if you want to remain in business. And not everyone can be picky when it comes to clients, especially in a competitive market.