5 ms·

Full screen, in browser, Flash 10.1 content shown running on a Nexus One

33 points by ukdm 17y ago

dirtbox 17y ago
I like this new, under pressure Adobe. It's almost as if they're trying to please people rather than save their own skins.
- btipling 17y ago
  They'd please me most if they abandoned flash. Flash is a closed black box sitting in a web page. I'm working on a Google Chrome extension that finds MP3s on web pages and I hate it when I find a site with cool music but they use flash. Also it eats my CPU. I hope flash goes away. I have half the mind to uninstall it from my computer. Most flash content is just ads and sites that don't really need flash for whatever it is they're doing. Adobe's Kuler is a great example of something that doesn't need flash. What does it do that can't be done with HTML and JavaScript? Why would someone choose flash for a project like that? Google analytics and other online chart software are another good example.
  - dirtbox 17y ago
    Indeed, Flash has outlived it's usefulness and created a lot of lazy web development. The faster we move away, the faster there will be something better.
    - henrikschroder 17y ago
      And when all the annoying advertising has moved to this new thing, how will you then block it, the way you can easily block flash ads today?
      - dirtbox 17y ago
        Block the element.
        chl 17y ago
        The div element?
      - ZeroGravitas 17y ago
        Are you familiar with Adblock, which has been doing exactly this for at least 5 years, since the days of annoying GIF animations? http://adblockplus.org/ http://adblockplus.org/
  - mgcross 17y ago
    I'll be stuck serving up video in flash for a long time. It's unfortunately still the best option for UA's other than webkit.
  - nfriedly 17y ago
    Has anyone here ever successfully uninstalled flash? Flash once decided to use my bluetooth headset instead of my speakers for audio, and I couldn't get it to reset. Figuring it would be an easy fix, I uninstalled it. Then I visited youtube and was slightly surprised to see the the video play just fine. I found and deleted several dozen other files and registry keys but never did manage to get rid of flash entirely. Eventually I reinstalled windows, that did the trick...
    - cjbos 17y ago
      Run the flash uninstaller on windows, it will remove everything. If you want to install an older version of flash make sure to restart first. http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html
  - tomlin 17y ago
    Flash exists because there is a gap in technological advancement between "standards" / open source and commercial software. This gap will exist forever. Because of this, Flash will also live forever. HTML5+JS can render many Flash examples, yes. A streamlined IDE and a JS engine within the browser that runs AS FAST as a compiled SWF is yet to be seen. Flash will continue to add features to keep it above the bare-minimum "standards" that so many web developers are used to developing on. Let's face it. We all clap for HTML5+JS, but who's actually using it with their clients; who fear nothing more than a visitor not being able to view a product or service? Let's get real about Flash and agree it isn't A Good Thing for advancement and innovation if an idea farm (which receives millions and millions of dollars in R&D) like Flash is abandoned. Come on guys. Really?
    - btipling 17y ago
      I don't agree. Flash does too much harm, and innovation wouldn't die if it went away tomorrow.
      - tomlin 17y ago
        This is lateral thinking. You're in the "All or Nothing" camp. The binary reasoning. The very thing that makes innovation impossible. In your world, YouTube, Vimeo and experimental web development wouldn't exist. HTML5 video and audio is being implemented TODAY because Flash created that demand at it's current rate of absorbency. So it should die? Flash is a breeding ground for ideas. What if Flash introduced a new approach to video conferencing / VOIP and allowed developers to play with the experience among multiple audiences? We wait for the "standards" bodies to "aggressively" implement these advancements? Or watch all browsers attempt to implement features inconsistently and cause more pain circa 1998? Flash death = death of experimentation and innovation in RIA.
        btipling 17y ago
        I think you make a lot of good points. The video and voip examples are pretty convincing.
  - zarski 17y ago
    I totally agree that Kuler and Google Analytics don't and have never needed flash. In fact most web application needs don't need the HTML 5 or Flash like capabilities. AJAX and DOM tech turns out to be good enough technology to cover most web application use cases.
    - shimi 17y ago
      "AJAX and DOM tech turns out to be good enough" But not as good
      - stcredzero 17y ago
        Often, even "good enough" but open is desirable.
  - cjbos 17y ago
    http://kuler.adobe.com/#create/fromanimage http://kuler.adobe.com/#create/fromanimage that's something thats trivial to implement in Flash, but much harder with JavaScript I imagine.
    - btipling 17y ago
      I and others have written something like this with backend support using gd or imagemagick.
    - sp332 17y ago
      Something like this, maybe? http://harthur.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/getting-the-color-scheme-of-a-website-using-canvas-and-hierarchical-clustering/ http://harthur.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/getting-the-color-sc...
swilliams 17y ago
"Forget everything Steve Jobs is saying about Flash being buggy. In my opinion Apple do not like Flash and AIR because it is a major threat to revenue from App Store sales." No. That is the MAIN reason Flash isn't on the iPhone, it is the number one crashiest program on the Mac. How is the battery life? That's another big concern with Flash on a mobile device.
- theandym 17y ago
  Exactly. The questions with the iPhone (and any mobile platform) is not "Can it run?" but rather "Will it perform and not destroy battery life?". I'm am glad to see that Adobe is working on a mobile version, but until they solve the battery life issue I am happy to not have it on my iPhone.
- henrikschroder 17y ago
  The big problem isn't Flash itself, but what people make in it. Most of the crap Flash movies out there are made by graphical designers who have no knowledge about programming, and typically only test their creations in isolation on their own machines. When that thing is then released, it is actually displayed on some webpage together with lots of other flash elements and other ads, and the whole thing slows to a crawl because none of it was optimised. A good Flash programmer can make very good Flash movies that don't perform like crap, but good Flash programmers are very rare. A lot of people hate flash because of all the low-quality crap that is made with it, and shoved down people's throats through websites, but if you replace Flash with something else, you can bet your life that there will still be a lot of low-quality crap, made by non-programmers, that will be shoved down your throat and slow down your browsing experience.
  - rauljara 17y ago
    All true... except that the same flash app running on a non-windows machine will use more resources than one running on a non-windows machine. Full screen flash video takes up a ridiculous amount of resources on a mac, and an obscene amount on a Linux machine. Based on adobe's crappy track record with non-windows platforms, I have no trouble believing the reports that the version of flash they submitted to the app store drained the iPhone battery in under an hour, as rumors indicated. Non-optimized flash apps are indeed a problem that Adobe can't really fix. But the problem is multiplied by Adobe's god-awful implementation of flash on non-windows machines.
tvon 17y ago
> So the idea that you can’t do Flash in a mobile browser is just not the case as you can see. Nobody that I know of has claimed otherwise. The claim is that you wouldn't want to run it because of stability, performance and battery life issues. > In my opinion Apple do not like Flash and AIR because it is a major threat to revenue from App Store sales. That's a common opinion, but I don't see how it holds up. If you're talking about free Flash games the obvious competition would be free iPhone games which Apple makes no money off of. If you're talking about ad-supported Flash games then the competition would be ad-supported iPhone games, which Apple makes no money off of. > The other aspect of Flash that worries Apple is obviously control. They have none over that content. So if someone wanted to produce a strip poker app with full nudity, for example, they could, and have it running full screen on an Apple device. That's also reaching. They have no control over any webapp you build either, and you could certainly pull off a strip poker game online without flash. You could even use real people.
- bad_user 17y ago
  > If you're talking about free Flash games the obvious competition would be free iPhone games which Apple makes no money off of. If you're talking about ad-supported Flash games then the competition would be ad-supported iPhone games, which Apple makes no money off of. Apple may not get any money on freebies, but those freebies are still distributed through the iTunes Store, you still need to pay the $99 entrance fee, and you still have to own a Mac to develop iPhone software. That's control they are going to great lengths to keep.
  - rimantas 17y ago
    Interesting, I did not know that Adobe gives Flash development tools for free. Where can I download my free copy?
    - Spikefu 17y ago
      They don't give away the IDE, but the SDK and command line compiler is available here: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sd... There are also a few open source editor/IDE options here: http://osflash.org/projects http://osflash.org/projects Particularly http://www.flashdevelop.org/wikidocs/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.flashdevelop.org/wikidocs/index.php?title=Main_Pa...
jsz0 17y ago
Amusing and possibly telling that the one screenshot that includes the battery indicator shows it in late-orange to early-red territory. I'll give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it wasn't fully charged when they started the demo.

33 points by ukdm 17y ago

I like this new, under pressure Adobe. It's almost as if they're trying to please people rather than save their own skins.

btipling 17y ago
They'd please me most if they abandoned flash. Flash is a closed black box sitting in a web page. I'm working on a Google Chrome extension that finds MP3s on web pages and I hate it when I find a site with cool music but they use flash. Also it eats my CPU. I hope flash goes away. I have half the mind to uninstall it from my computer. Most flash content is just ads and sites that don't really need flash for whatever it is they're doing. Adobe's Kuler is a great example of something that doesn't need flash. What does it do that can't be done with HTML and JavaScript? Why would someone choose flash for a project like that? Google analytics and other online chart software are another good example.
- dirtbox 17y ago
  Indeed, Flash has outlived it's usefulness and created a lot of lazy web development. The faster we move away, the faster there will be something better.
  - henrikschroder 17y ago
    And when all the annoying advertising has moved to this new thing, how will you then block it, the way you can easily block flash ads today?
    - dirtbox 17y ago
      Block the element.
      - chl 17y ago
        The div element?
    - ZeroGravitas 17y ago
      Are you familiar with Adblock, which has been doing exactly this for at least 5 years, since the days of annoying GIF animations? http://adblockplus.org/ http://adblockplus.org/
- mgcross 17y ago
  I'll be stuck serving up video in flash for a long time. It's unfortunately still the best option for UA's other than webkit.
- nfriedly 17y ago
  Has anyone here ever successfully uninstalled flash? Flash once decided to use my bluetooth headset instead of my speakers for audio, and I couldn't get it to reset. Figuring it would be an easy fix, I uninstalled it. Then I visited youtube and was slightly surprised to see the the video play just fine. I found and deleted several dozen other files and registry keys but never did manage to get rid of flash entirely. Eventually I reinstalled windows, that did the trick...
  - cjbos 17y ago
    Run the flash uninstaller on windows, it will remove everything. If you want to install an older version of flash make sure to restart first. http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html
- tomlin 17y ago
  Flash exists because there is a gap in technological advancement between "standards" / open source and commercial software. This gap will exist forever. Because of this, Flash will also live forever. HTML5+JS can render many Flash examples, yes. A streamlined IDE and a JS engine within the browser that runs AS FAST as a compiled SWF is yet to be seen. Flash will continue to add features to keep it above the bare-minimum "standards" that so many web developers are used to developing on. Let's face it. We all clap for HTML5+JS, but who's actually using it with their clients; who fear nothing more than a visitor not being able to view a product or service? Let's get real about Flash and agree it isn't A Good Thing for advancement and innovation if an idea farm (which receives millions and millions of dollars in R&D) like Flash is abandoned. Come on guys. Really?
  - btipling 17y ago
    I don't agree. Flash does too much harm, and innovation wouldn't die if it went away tomorrow.
    - tomlin 17y ago
      This is lateral thinking. You're in the "All or Nothing" camp. The binary reasoning. The very thing that makes innovation impossible. In your world, YouTube, Vimeo and experimental web development wouldn't exist. HTML5 video and audio is being implemented TODAY because Flash created that demand at it's current rate of absorbency. So it should die? Flash is a breeding ground for ideas. What if Flash introduced a new approach to video conferencing / VOIP and allowed developers to play with the experience among multiple audiences? We wait for the "standards" bodies to "aggressively" implement these advancements? Or watch all browsers attempt to implement features inconsistently and cause more pain circa 1998? Flash death = death of experimentation and innovation in RIA.
      - btipling 17y ago
        I think you make a lot of good points. The video and voip examples are pretty convincing.
- zarski 17y ago
  I totally agree that Kuler and Google Analytics don't and have never needed flash. In fact most web application needs don't need the HTML 5 or Flash like capabilities. AJAX and DOM tech turns out to be good enough technology to cover most web application use cases.
  - shimi 17y ago
    "AJAX and DOM tech turns out to be good enough" But not as good
    - stcredzero 17y ago
      Often, even "good enough" but open is desirable.
- cjbos 17y ago
  http://kuler.adobe.com/#create/fromanimage http://kuler.adobe.com/#create/fromanimage that's something thats trivial to implement in Flash, but much harder with JavaScript I imagine.
  - btipling 17y ago
    I and others have written something like this with backend support using gd or imagemagick.
  - sp332 17y ago
    Something like this, maybe? http://harthur.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/getting-the-color-scheme-of-a-website-using-canvas-and-hierarchical-clustering/ http://harthur.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/getting-the-color-sc...

swilliams 17y ago

"Forget everything Steve Jobs is saying about Flash being buggy. In my opinion Apple do not like Flash and AIR because it is a major threat to revenue from App Store sales." No. That is the MAIN reason Flash isn't on the iPhone, it is the number one crashiest program on the Mac. How is the battery life? That's another big concern with Flash on a mobile device.

theandym 17y ago
Exactly. The questions with the iPhone (and any mobile platform) is not "Can it run?" but rather "Will it perform and not destroy battery life?". I'm am glad to see that Adobe is working on a mobile version, but until they solve the battery life issue I am happy to not have it on my iPhone.
henrikschroder 17y ago
The big problem isn't Flash itself, but what people make in it. Most of the crap Flash movies out there are made by graphical designers who have no knowledge about programming, and typically only test their creations in isolation on their own machines. When that thing is then released, it is actually displayed on some webpage together with lots of other flash elements and other ads, and the whole thing slows to a crawl because none of it was optimised. A good Flash programmer can make very good Flash movies that don't perform like crap, but good Flash programmers are very rare. A lot of people hate flash because of all the low-quality crap that is made with it, and shoved down people's throats through websites, but if you replace Flash with something else, you can bet your life that there will still be a lot of low-quality crap, made by non-programmers, that will be shoved down your throat and slow down your browsing experience.
- rauljara 17y ago
  All true... except that the same flash app running on a non-windows machine will use more resources than one running on a non-windows machine. Full screen flash video takes up a ridiculous amount of resources on a mac, and an obscene amount on a Linux machine. Based on adobe's crappy track record with non-windows platforms, I have no trouble believing the reports that the version of flash they submitted to the app store drained the iPhone battery in under an hour, as rumors indicated. Non-optimized flash apps are indeed a problem that Adobe can't really fix. But the problem is multiplied by Adobe's god-awful implementation of flash on non-windows machines.

tvon 17y ago

> So the idea that you can’t do Flash in a mobile browser is just not the case as you can see. Nobody that I know of has claimed otherwise. The claim is that you wouldn't want to run it because of stability, performance and battery life issues. > In my opinion Apple do not like Flash and AIR because it is a major threat to revenue from App Store sales. That's a common opinion, but I don't see how it holds up. If you're talking about free Flash games the obvious competition would be free iPhone games which Apple makes no money off of. If you're talking about ad-supported Flash games then the competition would be ad-supported iPhone games, which Apple makes no money off of. > The other aspect of Flash that worries Apple is obviously control. They have none over that content. So if someone wanted to produce a strip poker app with full nudity, for example, they could, and have it running full screen on an Apple device. That's also reaching. They have no control over any webapp you build either, and you could certainly pull off a strip poker game online without flash. You could even use real people.

bad_user 17y ago
> If you're talking about free Flash games the obvious competition would be free iPhone games which Apple makes no money off of. If you're talking about ad-supported Flash games then the competition would be ad-supported iPhone games, which Apple makes no money off of. Apple may not get any money on freebies, but those freebies are still distributed through the iTunes Store, you still need to pay the $99 entrance fee, and you still have to own a Mac to develop iPhone software. That's control they are going to great lengths to keep.
- rimantas 17y ago
  Interesting, I did not know that Adobe gives Flash development tools for free. Where can I download my free copy?
  - Spikefu 17y ago
    They don't give away the IDE, but the SDK and command line compiler is available here: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sd... There are also a few open source editor/IDE options here: http://osflash.org/projects http://osflash.org/projects Particularly http://www.flashdevelop.org/wikidocs/index.php?title=Main_Page http://www.flashdevelop.org/wikidocs/index.php?title=Main_Pa...

jsz0 17y ago

Amusing and possibly telling that the one screenshot that includes the battery indicator shows it in late-orange to early-red territory. I'll give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it wasn't fully charged when they started the demo.