10 ms·
Justice-as-a-Service
- jMyles 11y agoJustice-as-a-Service: What the DoJ has been falsely claiming to provide since 1870!
- mike_hock 11y agoWell, lawyers are essentially "justice as a service," aren't they.
- jameshart 11y agoWell, shops which retail boxed shrinkwrapped software are essentially "software as a service" aren't they?
- lotyrin 11y agoNot really. Maybe if they rented transferable licenses.
- AceyMan 11y agoQueue Obligatory 'Net Meme: [pic of lawyer-type guy]- "I believe every citizen has a natural right to as much justice as they possibly can afford."
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- readams 11y agoSome of the links are wrong. The real links are: Fixed: https://www.fixed.com https://www.fixed.com Paribus: https://paribus.co/ https://paribus.co/
- readams 11y agoI think in this area there's only so much they can really do since if they really make an impact they'll just be blocked or terms and conditions updated to prevent them from being able to operate. Fixed, for example, has been blocked by various cities, including San Francisco.
- readams 11y agoActually looks like Fixed has pivoted away completely from parking tickets as their site doesn't even mention it. I guess there's no justice in justice-as-a-service.
- inlined 11y agoI recently referred them to a friend who got an SF parking ticket. She they don't do SF anymore because the city shut them out somehow.
- swang 11y agoThey shut them down because they were causing them to lose too much money. Also this: > When Fixed began faxing its submissions to SFMTA last year, the agency emailed the startup to stop using their fax machine. When Fixed pointed out that it was legal to do so, the agency simply shut off their fax. http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-your-parking-tickets-gets-blocked-in-san-francisco-oakland-l-a/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-yo...
- hobbyjogger 11y agoYeah - calling it "justice"-as-a-service seems a little ambitious. More like "(semi-)automated emails/letters asking for refunds"-as-a-service. These emails/letters are, for the most part, only going to be as effective as corporate policy allows.
- mdpopescu 11y agopatio11 calls lawyers "professional letter writers"; this does seem to lead to "letter writing as a service" :)
- danielfoster 11y agoYou might also want to add Pixsy to your list: http://www.pixsy.com/ http://www.pixsy.com/ One of the things we're working to fix is helping photographers overcome the vast complexity of international IP law. Artists have the right to their work in almost every country, but it's practically impossible for them to enforce this at home let alone in unknown legal systems. We currently help artists obtain compensation for the unauthorized use of their work in nearly ten countries.
- finnn 11y agoThat sounds (to me) like corporate newspeak for "litigious copyright troll as a service"
- fabulist 11y agoCopyright violation is a huge problem for photographers, but if you have a better solution than suing violators they are all ears, I'm sure.
- danielfoster 11y agoIn what way? Photographers work hard to make a living, and we've seen many cases of businesses (we only pursue businesses) knowingly profiting from photographers' work, and then in turn tell the photographers to go take a hike. Here's a perspective on image theft from one of our photographers: https://www.pixsy.com/pay-up-for-the-photo-you-stole/ https://www.pixsy.com/pay-up-for-the-photo-you-stole/ I don't see how helping a photographer obtain compensation for a stolen photo is any different from helping an airline passenger collect compensation.
- delinka 11y ago“No Win, No Fee” So people will begin to submit every little grievance since they won't get charged if they don't 'win' on the chance that they'll get a payout if they do win. At what point does JaaS stop scaling? Perhaps this one stop on the way to fully digitized contracts? Two things came to mind when I see this (neither of which my Search Fu is successful at finding...): 1)A short story placed in the 'near future' where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email. 2) Recent research into digital contracts for financial systems. JaaS feels like #1 developing from the consumer direction.
- fizx 11y agoIt's trivial for companies to not spend resources helping problem customers.
- schoen 11y ago> A short story placed in the 'near future' where people receive emails from lawyers about copyright infringement where settlement of a few cents is offered and can be paid right from the email. I've read that story and think it was by either Cory Doctorow or Charles Stross. There is automated high-volume litigation as a plot point in Stross's Accelerando, but I think that's not the story that you're thinking of. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelera... I think the one you're thinking of features a little girl being sued for benefiting from colonial-era crimes in the Belgian Congo (among other micro-lawsuits).
- nightpool 11y agoI've read the story you're talking about, and its definitely by Doctorow, but I googled around for a while without any luck, as well as searching some of the short story collections. I'd be interested if anybody could remember it!
- schoen 11y agoWell, martey found the one I was thinking of (above) -- it turned out to be by Paul Ford.
- hyperion2010 11y agoThe depth of misunderstanding of what justice is here is utterly staggering. Contract enforcement (or just enforcement) as a service maybe, but going after a company because you feel that they wronged you is as far from justice as revenge killing (to be fair the article does specifically mention violation of consumer protection laws here). The notion that anything other than a state (read: leviathan) can administer justice is a dangerously misleading notion since unless both parties agree to abide by the system then there is no consistent notion of justice (note that accepting your citizenship is tacit agreement).
- 6502nerdface 11y ago> The notion that anything other than a state (read: leviathan) can administer justice is a dangerously misleading notion since unless both parties agree to abide by the system then there is no consistent notion of justice (note that accepting your citizenship is tacit agreement). Well, how Hobbesian! Of course, this is not the only possible conception of justice, which is, as Plato put it (in Jowett's translation), "sometimes spoken of as the virtue of an individual, and sometimes as the virtue of a State." But in either case, if we want to get all philosophical about it, I share your skepticism... if justice is a virtue, can we really have a virtue as a service (VaaS)? Seriously, though, I don't think the OP's point is to propose administration of justice outside the state, but rather that certain tech advances can make it economically feasible for small, individual claims to be given a "fair shake" within the state system; claims which currently are too small to be worth a lawyer's---or even the claimant's---time without said tech.
- hyperion2010 11y agoI agree, and I think that it is actually pretty cool that there are some solutions that could put previously uneconomical enforcement to become economical. I do get the feeling though that this wouldn't be as much of an issue if corps were not continually trying (and succeeding) to prevent collective action against them (eg class action suits).
- shockzzz 11y agoconsumer protection is just the start, don't you think?
- pbiggar 11y agoI've dreamed of this for spam. You scan my email and find people who have spammed me, violating whatever laws govern these things. Then you claim the statutory penalty on my behalf, taking a cut. Then maybe people will stop. I'm mostly talking about recruiters and salespeople emailing me direct. I'm not even sure if that's illegal though.
- foxhop 11y agoFree idea, likely worth millions if executed properly: Consumer rebates management service
- patio11 11y agoThere exist a lot of opportunities for startups to use technology to make previously high-friction experiences dealing with the bureaucracy into low-friction experiences to the mutual benefit of bureaucracy and its clients. An example: substantially every state has a legal requirement that businesses which find themselves in possession of property which isn't theirs must hold it for a while (for the rightful owner) then escheat it. Escheating means "deposit with the state for safekeeping." This doesn't extinguish the original owner's interest in the property; in principle, you have a long or unbounded amount of time to ask for the property back. (You might be thinking "A lost hat" but think more "An abandoned bank account" or "The surrender value of a life insurance policy" or "A paycheck that was never deposited.") Those processes typically take place on paper and are relatively high-friction. For example, you need to get a document notarized, provide various proofs of ID and previous address, etc etc. Some states have very simple CRUD apps which let you check the status of claims these days. Those CRUD apps could be much, much improved upon by e.g. making it more straightforward for people to find and claim their own property. (This is generally free under the laws of most states, and some less-scrupulous operators charge for essentially running a free search then presenting the results to you, but one could imagine a value-adding business here.)
- hodgesrm 11y agoAnother way to look at it is that there are many use cases (like the one you cite) that involve information asymmetry. [1] That's usually a good place to create new markets. The legal field seems rather promising in this respect as the current delivery model of $300/hour with high minimum costs is incapable of addressing basic quick-hit problems like evaluating an offer letter to help with employment negotiation. The interesting issue is not so much technology (it's basically there) but how to market to customers who only intermittently have a problem that requires your product. You have to find niche market customers who experience the asymmetry on a regular basis or you have to go through channels instead of direct sales. (Example: piggy back on LinkedIn as a channel to deliver services to assert rights under prevailing labor law.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry
- ipsin 11y agoThis seems infeasible in the United States. If I've already agreed to a stacked arbitration process as part of a contract, isn't "the legal system" mostly out of the picture? All you're left is appealing to a company's reputation, to "do the right thing".
- ianferrel 11y agoI think it's only going to work in specific cases where policy or regulation demand. Note the examples: Airlines, telecommunications companies, parking tickets. Either heavily regulated industries or the government itself. Amazon and the shipping companies aren't, but I fully expect that if this sort of thing becomes a major cost, they'll simply adjust their policies to eliminate it. Amazon doesn't have to offer a refund for a later price drop the way that airlines have to compensate you if your flight is sufficiently delayed. Is there any indication that this will extend to general companies? I'm guessing that there aren't legislated consumer rights in most industries.
- ipsin 11y agoI also think that the effect of money on the law is corrosive, and while this kind of technology may level the playing field, that's not a universal good. Right now in some venues you can buy "the right lawyer" for a lot of money and get a DUI pled down to a slap on the wrist. That's not justice, but lowering the price to $200, and turning "the right lawyer" into an algorithm that snows the court into letting you off isn't justice either.
- gnaritas 11y ago> Justice-as-a-Service Justice that has to be bought isn't justice; justice as a service, what an absolutely terrible idea. As if we don't already have big enough problems with justice depending on the depth of your wallet.
- trhway 11y agoreminded USSR/Russia ~25 years ago - justice/protection/extortion/etc.-as-a-service and all at the same time by the same gang controlling given territory or business domain .
- tempestn 11y agoDid "Justice-as-a-Service" bring to mind a hit man for anyone else?
- anonyfox 11y agoThe interesting part would be how much such a service would cost: bringing together people with "problems" and "hitmans" for an airbnb-like network/arbitrage model. Or could prices be crowdsourced, so e.g. a few houndred people collect the money to "justify" trump once and for all? Would it be that immoral to prevent all the damage he will do? Interesting questions.
- sheraz 11y agoThis is exactly what I thought it was. In fact, my imagination flashed forward to a typical SaaS page with pricing tables and everything depending on the level of "Justice" you want served. The $49 package is a firm knock on the door, some harsh words, and light intimidation to motivate the servee to make things right. The $99 package is a everything in the $49 package, plus some unsavory physical intimidation. And the final $299 is the "Justice Served" package. Full Stop.
- liamcardenas 11y ago"Maybe your flight got cancelled. Or your cable subscription got more expensive. Or maybe you bought something online and the day after the price dropped. Or the package arrived two days late." Sorry, those are not injustices. Especially service price increases and "after purchase" price drops. This makes me wonder: What if a JaaS company alters its prices? What recourse will consumers have to correct this "injustice"? In all seriousness, however, I believe that this deserves a better name. Maybe Reimbursements as a Service (RaaS).
- hobs 11y agoIt seems like the obvious answer to this company altering its price is to apply the company's product to itself.
- mattlutze 11y agoThe author calls it "justice-as-a-service" because it fits the mnemonic. The article is really talking about automated consumer rights services, which is something quite different. In that, helping consumers take maximum advantage of what local, state, or federal law offers them could certainly be both a helpful public service and a lucrative market.
- zekevermillion 11y agoOnline dispute resolution works b/c the disputes in question are small. You would not want to have an important civil matter (like a divorce) settled in ODR b/c the rules are so flexible. It's basically, whatever the arbitrator thinks is "fair". I'm exaggerating slightly, but in many cases (e.g., modria) I've read that the arbs are given a fairly light training on anglo-saxon legal principles then left to apply their moral intuition. That's fine if you're just arguing over an ebay return. It's not fine if you're arguing over custody of your kids. Cynically, I wonder if ODR would work just as well if the result were random (as long as the disputants don't realize this). The process gives the illusion of redress for small wrongs, a way for angry customers to vent, and a 50/50 chance at "justice" for each party.
- legalfoundry 11y agoFree (to you), Self-Service arbitration vs Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC and many more... https://www.legalfoundryllc.com/ https://www.legalfoundryllc.com/
- breakingcups 11y agoOver here (in the Netherlands) there are already a handful of websites (backed by young lawfirms) that will challenge your traffic ticket for you (not just parking, but speeding violations, seatbelts, etc, etc.). They will do all due diligence (requesting the full report, speeding camera photo if provided, checking every response from the DA-equivalent for any errors, etc) on the basis that, for those cases in which the ticket is dropped, the Dutch state is obligated to pay for the lawyer fees. The process for the end-user is incredibly simple. Upload a scan of the ticket / summons, fill in a short blurb about why you think the ticket is invalid, sign a permission slip and done. It will never cost you a thing.