5 ms·

I Don’t Want a Freaking Computer

24 points by mcxx 17y ago

barrkel 17y ago
Even my girlfriend (iPhone 3G and 3GS user of over a year) is jealous of my Nexus One. But he's right, in a different way. When I use a computer, I make it do things. I give it commands, and it executes them, faster than before. I can write a script to transcode ripped DVDs overnight, according to my specifications, and automatically calculating crop values, pixel aspect ratios, etc. to produce the appropriate output for putting movies on my handheld devices. I can write programs that manipulate masses of data in heterogeneous formats and emit summaries, graphs, animations, visualizations of my design, not limited to the preconceptions of some third party software designer thousands of miles away. I use my computer as a computational device. To compute things. iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, these aren't computational devices. They are a different kind of thing; but my need and desire for ad-hoc computation are not limited to my current location or equipment, so I want my phone to be similarly flexible. But the things an iPhone etc. can do, I can also do.
hobb0001 17y ago
> I even tell my dealer to change my tires twice a year > I even drilled a hole my wall, and bought a 60 feet cable, at the cost of $300 What?! Is this guy completely oblivious to the way he spends his money? > Yep, I am one of the drooling mac fanatics. Oh. Well, there you have it.
- fragmede 17y ago
  That's actually more insightful than I first realized. You have to be oblivious to the vendor lock-in that results from Apple's control and the resulting costs. The 'no usb, no SD slot' complaint about the iPad? Thats because to get the 32 gigbyte iPad vs. the 16 gigabyte iPad is another $100. But I already have a 16 gigabyte USB stick, or a 16 gigabyte SD card I bought from Frys, on sale, for $40. Apple's going to charge me $100 for something I already have, and they're gonna charge me two times the price? If there was an SD slot, I could buy the 16 gigabyte iPad and use the SD card I already have, instead of buying the $600, 32-gigabyte iPad vs. the $500, 16-gigabyte version. It's a nickel-and-dime to the tune of 99-cents an app, and I don't like it. Nor can I really argue against the current success of the iPhone. If it costs me extra to get something that actually works, I'll actually get it, because it'll actually work. (edit: clarified '...charge me $100...')
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    Apple's going to charge me $100 for something I already have, and they're gonna charge me two times the price? Could you explain what you mean by this? I don't understand how Apple fits in to your previous purchases.
    - mbrubeck 17y ago
      He's saying that Apple has a large markup on the flash storage options for the iPad, and if it supported USB or SD like most computers then they wouldn't be able to have such a price differential between models. (Or maybe they would; Apple has previously charged 2-3x market prices for RAM upgrades in build-to-order Macs, when users could save hundreds of dollars by buying their RAM elsewhere.)
      - GHFigs 17y ago
        That doesn't explain the relation to his previous purchases. I don't see the connection at all.
        fragmede 17y ago
        I have a 16-gigabyte SD card. In order to have a 32-gigabyte iPad, I have to purchase the 32-gigabyte version for $600. If the iPad had an SD card slot, I could hypothetically purchase a 16-gigabyte iPad for $500 and use my previously purchased 16-gigabyte SD card.
        GHFigs 17y ago
        You've restated exactly the part that I do understand. What I don't understand is where you see a connection between your previous purchases and what Apple charges for what they produce. You specifically said that Apple would charge you for what you already have, but it isn't clear where that occurs.
        loup-vaillant 17y ago
- MrFoof 17y ago
  >I even tell my dealer to change my tires twice a year >What?! Is this guy completely oblivious to the way he spends his money? Being a car guy, I can say that properly maintaining sports cars is not cheap. To the average person who loathes paying $300 for a set of all-season tires every 40K-50K miles, maintenance budgets for a high-performance car can be terrifying. I had to do long distance commuting in a Lancer Evolution MR for a while. The ultra-grippy tires would last about 10K commuting like a sane person. You could destroy them during a single track day at Watkins Glen. At $1300 a set (shipped, mounted, and balanced). And you still needed to maintain a good set of winter tires despite an absurdly complex torque-vectoring AWD system. And tires were not the biggest items on the maintenance budget. Even the cheapest sports car money can buy in the US, a Miata, tears through $800 sets of summer tires pretty handily. People aren't oblivious. Everyone has their priorities. Home. Cars. Technology. Food. Travel. Other hobbies. What some find ridiculous, others find normal, and vice-versa.
philk 17y ago
I don't want a freaking iPhone that won't fit in my pocket.
AndrewDucker 17y ago
I don't want a freaking computer either. But I do want something that will let me listen to a streaming music app while writing emails.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- philk 17y ago
  What experience does an iPad deliver that I can't get from an iPhone, a netbook or a laptop?
  - redcap 17y ago
    who knows really as it's barely out, but I agree with the principle that there is far too much technical bullshit in most modern computers. Things should just work. If I were to break it down, you get a bigger screen over the iphone so you have a better web experience. You'll get a more portable device so you'll have a less weighty experience compared to a laptop. Dunno about netbooks.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    Some real life experience might throw some light on this. I've been using an old HP tc1100 slate computer for the past couple of months. Executive summary: it is much more intimate to have a tablet/slate form factor. It's just a more useful and flexible form factor. I can do everything I do on an iPhone, but much more comfortably with the larger screen. XP Tablet's handwriting recognition is great. (1) And I can do even more than the iPhone, since I can just install whatever Windows program I want. (Chrome with synced bookmarks on all my machines FTW!) I can attach a keyboard/mouse and do everything I do on the netbook/laptop. But I can do even more. I can use it as a slate and recline in an easy chair or on my bed, just continuing what I was doing before. I can carry it into meetings and refer to my information or references on the network while maintaining intimacy with whoever I am talking to. It's more like referring to my notes, an agenda, or a reference book than having all of my attention soaked up by a portable workstation. Someone can come into my cube to talk, and we can just slip into a conference room while casually taking all of my information resources with me. I don't even have to pause and tell my colleague "Wait a moment, I need to bring my laptop." I just always casually take it with me like I would a notepad. (2) I can walk around and take notes without looking like a total dork: http://amzn.com/B001G713NO http://amzn.com/B001G713NO (The case HP made for it is nice and looks like a big agenda. So maybe I look like a clipboard/planner dork, just not a total one.) With Skype and my USB 3G, it has replaced all of my daytime cellphone use. I was paying overage on my anytime minutes, but now I'm racking up rollover minutes. I'm even considering going prepaid on my iPhone just so I can have it in a pinch but relying primarily on the tc1100 and Skype. Incidentally, I do most of my HN posts with the tc1100 now. But this is a long one, so I'm sitting at my desk with the MacBook. And yes, I am planning to get an iPad. (Commensurate with Windows XP, I have spent a lot of time tinkering with the tc1100 to get it where I like it.) (1) - But I'm a geek and I can figure out gadgets easily. I can see how average users would find this frustrating. Also, I print and never write cursive. (2) - Battery life is old-school laptop: 2 hours in real life. But I just keep it plugged in at my desk at work or home. If I get a 2nd battery, I can hot swap it in suspend mode.
robotron 17y ago
I would like to see him write that post on an iPad. On second thought, I have better things to do with six hours.
- mechanical_fish 17y ago
  I'd enjoy that joke while it lasts. It probably won't seem as funny once the iPad actually comes out, because the thing supports keyboards, even wireless ones. People who want to write long-form essays will sit a keyboard down in front of their iPads and type. This won't be a common use case, of course. Because writing anything longer than a sentence or two is not a common use case. Unless you're me.
- DannoHung 17y ago
  Bluetooth keyboard support much?
davidw 17y ago
I do. I like programming and playing around with stuff and have since I put my hands on a Commodore PET. Granted, I like to do what I want to do, rather than fixing broken stuff, but there's so much interesting stuff out there, that having source for it just makes your life that much more pleasant.
resdirector 17y ago
"I really don't want a computer. I hate computers. But, what I do like is the power and convenience that a computer gives me." Same. I want carefreeness of the 60s, with the convenience of the 10s.
sreitshamer 17y ago
This guy's like the author's friend in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
kamidev 17y ago
The author of this article is interesting because he is so obvious: "It's about giving people a great experience." In other words: it's all about selling stuff to consumers. Which is a great thing to say if - like Baekdal - you are marketing yourself as a guru to people to want to sell stuff. Many "usability" discussions have the implicit (sometimes explicit goal) of making it easy for users to do things without having to learn anything first. This may be fine for generic routine tasks that everyone has to do from time to time. We are all thrilled about our shiny new phones. But consider this: 1. Not long ago, most things were hard, confusing or impossible to do on any phone 2. Even if 80% of all things you can do on an iPhone are dead simple - are these things that really matter to you? Things worth well are usually not generic routine tasks. When you love what you are doing and try to make it as good as you can, using the right tools in the right way is a major part of the experience. But that kind of experience is impossible without making an effort to learn new things. My personal belief is that those of us who want to create our own experiences benefit from getting our hands dirty with technology now and then.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  When you love what you are doing and try to make it as good as you can, using the right tools in the right way is a major part of the experience. That's the point: "It's about giving people a great experience". You made a mistake right off the bat by setting up the argument that "it's all about selling stuff to consumers" instead of the one actually made in the article. You're disagreeing right past agreement.
loup-vaillant 17y ago
In my opinion, this article fails to draw a crucial line: the limit between what a user has to know and what he can ignore. Speaking of cars, users have extensive knowledge of it. To the point that no one can legally drive a car without a driving licence. This represents dozens of hours of specialized learning and training. And I was talking about a single purpose device. Computers have many purposes. No amount of user friendliness is going to hide this essential complexity. No matter what we do, users will have to know basic things like the difference between a computer and a program, between a browser and a the Internet, or between the address bar and the search box. If they don't, they could lose their privacy or their money. Just like driving left without looking can be lethal. Many computer users lack this kind of knowledge. The only way we can give them a "great experience" is by teaching first. Until we do, they will stay dependent, helpless, and happy. (At least as far as computers are concerned, which is further and further, these days.)
- GHFigs 17y ago
  The only way we can give them a "great experience" is by teaching first. Who do you mean by "we" and what exactly do you think should be taught?
  - loup-vaillant 17y ago
    "We" are developers, teachers, and even just any people who know some very basic stuff well. And we should teach: First the very basics. What is a computer? A program? An OS? A network? The internet? A web browser? A web site? A URL? A search engine? A file? A text editor? Email? Web based mail? Then, a bit about privacy and security. What is a virus? An anti-virus? A firewall? Spam? Fishing? Spam filters? Cryptography? TLS? How to spy on your husband? Can you trust strangers and companies on line (compared to IRL)? What is a weak password? And finally, a crash programming course in a super-easy programming language so they can write a hello world, do some calculations, and a basic interactive program (like a dichotomy game). It shouldn't take more than a few hours (maybe even just one). But it definitely should teach that computer errors are often programmer errors. That it is possible to do personalized automation of tedious tasks. Ideally, all these things should be taught with the help of GNU/linux machines. Not only to push the philosophy, but also to put everyone in an unfamiliar environment, then get them familiar with it. Just to teach them that they can actually learn.

24 points by mcxx 17y ago

Even my girlfriend (iPhone 3G and 3GS user of over a year) is jealous of my Nexus One. But he's right, in a different way. When I use a computer, I make it do things. I give it commands, and it executes them, faster than before. I can write a script to transcode ripped DVDs overnight, according to my specifications, and automatically calculating crop values, pixel aspect ratios, etc. to produce the appropriate output for putting movies on my handheld devices. I can write programs that manipulate masses of data in heterogeneous formats and emit summaries, graphs, animations, visualizations of my design, not limited to the preconceptions of some third party software designer thousands of miles away. I use my computer as a computational device. To compute things. iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, these aren't computational devices. They are a different kind of thing; but my need and desire for ad-hoc computation are not limited to my current location or equipment, so I want my phone to be similarly flexible. But the things an iPhone etc. can do, I can also do.

hobb0001 17y ago

> I even tell my dealer to change my tires twice a year > I even drilled a hole my wall, and bought a 60 feet cable, at the cost of $300 What?! Is this guy completely oblivious to the way he spends his money? > Yep, I am one of the drooling mac fanatics. Oh. Well, there you have it.

fragmede 17y ago
That's actually more insightful than I first realized. You have to be oblivious to the vendor lock-in that results from Apple's control and the resulting costs. The 'no usb, no SD slot' complaint about the iPad? Thats because to get the 32 gigbyte iPad vs. the 16 gigabyte iPad is another $100. But I already have a 16 gigabyte USB stick, or a 16 gigabyte SD card I bought from Frys, on sale, for $40. Apple's going to charge me $100 for something I already have, and they're gonna charge me two times the price? If there was an SD slot, I could buy the 16 gigabyte iPad and use the SD card I already have, instead of buying the $600, 32-gigabyte iPad vs. the $500, 16-gigabyte version. It's a nickel-and-dime to the tune of 99-cents an app, and I don't like it. Nor can I really argue against the current success of the iPhone. If it costs me extra to get something that actually works, I'll actually get it, because it'll actually work. (edit: clarified '...charge me $100...')
- GHFigs 17y ago
  Apple's going to charge me $100 for something I already have, and they're gonna charge me two times the price? Could you explain what you mean by this? I don't understand how Apple fits in to your previous purchases.
  - mbrubeck 17y ago
    He's saying that Apple has a large markup on the flash storage options for the iPad, and if it supported USB or SD like most computers then they wouldn't be able to have such a price differential between models. (Or maybe they would; Apple has previously charged 2-3x market prices for RAM upgrades in build-to-order Macs, when users could save hundreds of dollars by buying their RAM elsewhere.)
    - GHFigs 17y ago
      That doesn't explain the relation to his previous purchases. I don't see the connection at all.
      - fragmede 17y ago
        I have a 16-gigabyte SD card. In order to have a 32-gigabyte iPad, I have to purchase the 32-gigabyte version for $600. If the iPad had an SD card slot, I could hypothetically purchase a 16-gigabyte iPad for $500 and use my previously purchased 16-gigabyte SD card.
        GHFigs 17y ago
        You've restated exactly the part that I do understand. What I don't understand is where you see a connection between your previous purchases and what Apple charges for what they produce. You specifically said that Apple would charge you for what you already have, but it isn't clear where that occurs.
        loup-vaillant 17y ago
MrFoof 17y ago
>I even tell my dealer to change my tires twice a year >What?! Is this guy completely oblivious to the way he spends his money? Being a car guy, I can say that properly maintaining sports cars is not cheap. To the average person who loathes paying $300 for a set of all-season tires every 40K-50K miles, maintenance budgets for a high-performance car can be terrifying. I had to do long distance commuting in a Lancer Evolution MR for a while. The ultra-grippy tires would last about 10K commuting like a sane person. You could destroy them during a single track day at Watkins Glen. At $1300 a set (shipped, mounted, and balanced). And you still needed to maintain a good set of winter tires despite an absurdly complex torque-vectoring AWD system. And tires were not the biggest items on the maintenance budget. Even the cheapest sports car money can buy in the US, a Miata, tears through $800 sets of summer tires pretty handily. People aren't oblivious. Everyone has their priorities. Home. Cars. Technology. Food. Travel. Other hobbies. What some find ridiculous, others find normal, and vice-versa.

philk 17y ago

I don't want a freaking iPhone that won't fit in my pocket.

AndrewDucker 17y ago

I don't want a freaking computer either. But I do want something that will let me listen to a streaming music app while writing emails.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

philk 17y ago
What experience does an iPad deliver that I can't get from an iPhone, a netbook or a laptop?
- redcap 17y ago
  who knows really as it's barely out, but I agree with the principle that there is far too much technical bullshit in most modern computers. Things should just work. If I were to break it down, you get a bigger screen over the iphone so you have a better web experience. You'll get a more portable device so you'll have a less weighty experience compared to a laptop. Dunno about netbooks.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  Some real life experience might throw some light on this. I've been using an old HP tc1100 slate computer for the past couple of months. Executive summary: it is much more intimate to have a tablet/slate form factor. It's just a more useful and flexible form factor. I can do everything I do on an iPhone, but much more comfortably with the larger screen. XP Tablet's handwriting recognition is great. (1) And I can do even more than the iPhone, since I can just install whatever Windows program I want. (Chrome with synced bookmarks on all my machines FTW!) I can attach a keyboard/mouse and do everything I do on the netbook/laptop. But I can do even more. I can use it as a slate and recline in an easy chair or on my bed, just continuing what I was doing before. I can carry it into meetings and refer to my information or references on the network while maintaining intimacy with whoever I am talking to. It's more like referring to my notes, an agenda, or a reference book than having all of my attention soaked up by a portable workstation. Someone can come into my cube to talk, and we can just slip into a conference room while casually taking all of my information resources with me. I don't even have to pause and tell my colleague "Wait a moment, I need to bring my laptop." I just always casually take it with me like I would a notepad. (2) I can walk around and take notes without looking like a total dork: http://amzn.com/B001G713NO http://amzn.com/B001G713NO (The case HP made for it is nice and looks like a big agenda. So maybe I look like a clipboard/planner dork, just not a total one.) With Skype and my USB 3G, it has replaced all of my daytime cellphone use. I was paying overage on my anytime minutes, but now I'm racking up rollover minutes. I'm even considering going prepaid on my iPhone just so I can have it in a pinch but relying primarily on the tc1100 and Skype. Incidentally, I do most of my HN posts with the tc1100 now. But this is a long one, so I'm sitting at my desk with the MacBook. And yes, I am planning to get an iPad. (Commensurate with Windows XP, I have spent a lot of time tinkering with the tc1100 to get it where I like it.) (1) - But I'm a geek and I can figure out gadgets easily. I can see how average users would find this frustrating. Also, I print and never write cursive. (2) - Battery life is old-school laptop: 2 hours in real life. But I just keep it plugged in at my desk at work or home. If I get a 2nd battery, I can hot swap it in suspend mode.

robotron 17y ago

I would like to see him write that post on an iPad. On second thought, I have better things to do with six hours.

mechanical_fish 17y ago
I'd enjoy that joke while it lasts. It probably won't seem as funny once the iPad actually comes out, because the thing supports keyboards, even wireless ones. People who want to write long-form essays will sit a keyboard down in front of their iPads and type. This won't be a common use case, of course. Because writing anything longer than a sentence or two is not a common use case. Unless you're me.
DannoHung 17y ago
Bluetooth keyboard support much?

davidw 17y ago

I do. I like programming and playing around with stuff and have since I put my hands on a Commodore PET. Granted, I like to do what I want to do, rather than fixing broken stuff, but there's so much interesting stuff out there, that having source for it just makes your life that much more pleasant.

resdirector 17y ago

"I really don't want a computer. I hate computers. But, what I do like is the power and convenience that a computer gives me." Same. I want carefreeness of the 60s, with the convenience of the 10s.

sreitshamer 17y ago

This guy's like the author's friend in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

kamidev 17y ago

The author of this article is interesting because he is so obvious: "It's about giving people a great experience." In other words: it's all about selling stuff to consumers. Which is a great thing to say if - like Baekdal - you are marketing yourself as a guru to people to want to sell stuff. Many "usability" discussions have the implicit (sometimes explicit goal) of making it easy for users to do things without having to learn anything first. This may be fine for generic routine tasks that everyone has to do from time to time. We are all thrilled about our shiny new phones. But consider this: 1. Not long ago, most things were hard, confusing or impossible to do on any phone 2. Even if 80% of all things you can do on an iPhone are dead simple - are these things that really matter to you? Things worth well are usually not generic routine tasks. When you love what you are doing and try to make it as good as you can, using the right tools in the right way is a major part of the experience. But that kind of experience is impossible without making an effort to learn new things. My personal belief is that those of us who want to create our own experiences benefit from getting our hands dirty with technology now and then.

GHFigs 17y ago
When you love what you are doing and try to make it as good as you can, using the right tools in the right way is a major part of the experience. That's the point: "It's about giving people a great experience". You made a mistake right off the bat by setting up the argument that "it's all about selling stuff to consumers" instead of the one actually made in the article. You're disagreeing right past agreement.

loup-vaillant 17y ago

In my opinion, this article fails to draw a crucial line: the limit between what a user has to know and what he can ignore. Speaking of cars, users have extensive knowledge of it. To the point that no one can legally drive a car without a driving licence. This represents dozens of hours of specialized learning and training. And I was talking about a single purpose device. Computers have many purposes. No amount of user friendliness is going to hide this essential complexity. No matter what we do, users will have to know basic things like the difference between a computer and a program, between a browser and a the Internet, or between the address bar and the search box. If they don't, they could lose their privacy or their money. Just like driving left without looking can be lethal. Many computer users lack this kind of knowledge. The only way we can give them a "great experience" is by teaching first. Until we do, they will stay dependent, helpless, and happy. (At least as far as computers are concerned, which is further and further, these days.)

GHFigs 17y ago
The only way we can give them a "great experience" is by teaching first. Who do you mean by "we" and what exactly do you think should be taught?
- loup-vaillant 17y ago
  "We" are developers, teachers, and even just any people who know some very basic stuff well. And we should teach: First the very basics. What is a computer? A program? An OS? A network? The internet? A web browser? A web site? A URL? A search engine? A file? A text editor? Email? Web based mail? Then, a bit about privacy and security. What is a virus? An anti-virus? A firewall? Spam? Fishing? Spam filters? Cryptography? TLS? How to spy on your husband? Can you trust strangers and companies on line (compared to IRL)? What is a weak password? And finally, a crash programming course in a super-easy programming language so they can write a hello world, do some calculations, and a basic interactive program (like a dichotomy game). It shouldn't take more than a few hours (maybe even just one). But it definitely should teach that computer errors are often programmer errors. That it is possible to do personalized automation of tedious tasks. Ideally, all these things should be taught with the help of GNU/linux machines. Not only to push the philosophy, but also to put everyone in an unfamiliar environment, then get them familiar with it. Just to teach them that they can actually learn.