8 ms·

I guess it's hard to feel in any other way when recent migration policies have translated into a sharp decline of our own security in our own developed countrie

I guess it's hard to feel in any other way when recent migration policies have translated into a sharp decline of our own security in our own developed countries.

eveningcoffee 11y ago
Maybe yes, maybe not, but you are a troll who created the account about 24 hours before the attacks.
- odinduty 11y ago
  Maybe I was behind the attacks. Or maybe your comment is a senseless ad-hominem.
  - tobltobs 11y ago
    What do you expect with such a fag nickname?
  - eveningcoffee 11y ago
    Obvious troll is obvious.
- maze-le 11y ago
  Seems he even bought a clique of downvoters with him.
ascorbic 11y ago
The Paris attackers were French and Belgian, not immigrants. This has been the case with almost all attacks in Europe, where the perpetrators have almost always been local.
- odinduty 11y ago
  Mohamed Abrini and Salah Abdeslam really do sound like francophone names! Come on, let's try not to have to discuss this...
  - ascorbic 11y ago
    There we go. Barack Obama really does sound like an anglophone name. I bet their skin colour is really suspicious too.
- raverbashing 11y ago
  "Local", yes, keep telling yourself that 2nd generation immigrants I'm not against immigration per se, but there's a lot of problems coming from people who fail (because it's mostly their responsibility) to integrate
  - ascorbic 11y ago
    If they're born in the country and lived there their whole life, they're local by any non-racist definition.
    - pjc50 11y ago
      Do they think of themselves as local?
    - jbmorgado 11y ago
      Even when they don't speak the local language like it sometimes happens? Truth is, you can be so enclosed in a foreign culture that you will actually stay a foreigner trough all your life. P.S.: I'm not saying that was the case here, I'm just answering your broader remark.
    - mistermann 11y ago
      That's rather disingenuous. They are second generation immigrants of a particular religion that seems to be coincidentally associated time after time in these incidents.
      - ascorbic 11y ago
        Second generation immigrants don't mean this a problem with immigration. Lots of people like to link this to the current Syrian refugee crisis, but none of them are refugees. If you want to make it about immigration, make it about immigration from France's former colonies in the 1960s and 70s.
        mistermann 11y ago
        > Second generation immigrants don't mean this a problem with immigration And that they're not first generation immigrants doesn't prove it isn't a problem with immigration either. We are still left with this recurring coincidence aren't we. I don't claim to know the absolute truth here, I'm just suggesting we honestly acknowledge reality during discussions.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  >The Paris attackers were French and Belgian, not immigrants. Two of the nine were not - they were actual, recent immigrants through asylum-seeking process. "Ahmad al-Mohammad" who came as a refugee through Turkey to Leroa in Greece, and together with him were registered the fingerprints of another immigrant known as "M. al-Mahmodin". The rest were second-generation immigrants: Bilal Hadfi was French but he spent time in Syria and came back, not through controlled border crossings, so he might have come with the asylees/immigrants. Others included French citizens Samy Amimour, who fought in Yemen, and Omar Ismail Mostefai and Foued Mohamed-Aggad who fought in Syria, and they were on wanted lists but were not spotted on border, so they appear to have come through people smugglers as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Identification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Id...
  - ascorbic 11y ago
    The fact that Hadfi probably returned with refugees doesn't mean much, when he could have easily jumped on the Easyjet from Istanbul and strolled through the blue channel. Yes, two more of them also probably came that way, one of whom was on a false passport. So yes, maybe they were Syrian refugees, but all that says is that they haven't been identified. The fact that the only one of them who travelled that way who was positively identified turned out to be French means this is by no means a foregone conclusion. If it turns out that they were in fact refugees, that still doesn't make it a migration problem when most of the attackers were French or Belgian.
    - ptaipale 11y ago
      >The fact that Hadfi probably returned with refugees doesn't mean much, when he could have easily jumped on the Easyjet from Istanbul If he'd jumped on Easyjet from Istanbul, he'd have had to provide a passport and visa and risk being arrested at border check in case the authorities were too interested in his involvement with extremists. I don't get your point about blue channel; flights from Istanbul are not EU/Schengen internal. Again, that's not something that totally prevents acts of terror, but would work as a bit of deterrent. I believe I should have a voice about this, because I live in the same Schengen area.
matthewmacleod 11y ago
No they haven't. The recent attacks in Europe have not been caused by 'recent migrants'. That's just a bald-faced lie.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  In November Paris attacks, two of the nine actually were "recent migrants" as explained in another comment. So perhaps that "bald-faced lie" needs to be toned down a bit.
DanBC 11y ago
Caitlin Moran - > Always good, on days like this, to remind everyone that the guys blowing up Brussels are THE PEOPLE THE REFUGEES ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
braythwayt 11y ago
A throwaway account called “odinduty” is espousing anti-immigration sentiments? Will wonders never cease. But let’s stick to what HN does best, discuss the wonders of technology. In this case, I’d liek to administer a Turing Test: The hypothesis is that ”odinduty" is a reasonably sophisticated bot, trained to emulate the kind of comments you find on /r/Europeans. Can we find it making a statement inconsistent with this hypothesis?
- DanBC 11y ago
  It's probably better to flag, downvote, and ignore the obvious trolls.

I guess it's hard to feel in any other way when recent migration policies have translated into a sharp decline of our own security in our own developed countries.

eveningcoffee 11y ago

Maybe yes, maybe not, but you are a troll who created the account about 24 hours before the attacks.

odinduty 11y ago
Maybe I was behind the attacks. Or maybe your comment is a senseless ad-hominem.
- tobltobs 11y ago
  What do you expect with such a fag nickname?
- eveningcoffee 11y ago
  Obvious troll is obvious.
maze-le 11y ago
Seems he even bought a clique of downvoters with him.

ascorbic 11y ago

The Paris attackers were French and Belgian, not immigrants. This has been the case with almost all attacks in Europe, where the perpetrators have almost always been local.

odinduty 11y ago
Mohamed Abrini and Salah Abdeslam really do sound like francophone names! Come on, let's try not to have to discuss this...
- ascorbic 11y ago
  There we go. Barack Obama really does sound like an anglophone name. I bet their skin colour is really suspicious too.
raverbashing 11y ago
"Local", yes, keep telling yourself that 2nd generation immigrants I'm not against immigration per se, but there's a lot of problems coming from people who fail (because it's mostly their responsibility) to integrate
- ascorbic 11y ago
  If they're born in the country and lived there their whole life, they're local by any non-racist definition.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    Do they think of themselves as local?
  - jbmorgado 11y ago
    Even when they don't speak the local language like it sometimes happens? Truth is, you can be so enclosed in a foreign culture that you will actually stay a foreigner trough all your life. P.S.: I'm not saying that was the case here, I'm just answering your broader remark.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    That's rather disingenuous. They are second generation immigrants of a particular religion that seems to be coincidentally associated time after time in these incidents.
    - ascorbic 11y ago
      Second generation immigrants don't mean this a problem with immigration. Lots of people like to link this to the current Syrian refugee crisis, but none of them are refugees. If you want to make it about immigration, make it about immigration from France's former colonies in the 1960s and 70s.
      - mistermann 11y ago
        > Second generation immigrants don't mean this a problem with immigration And that they're not first generation immigrants doesn't prove it isn't a problem with immigration either. We are still left with this recurring coincidence aren't we. I don't claim to know the absolute truth here, I'm just suggesting we honestly acknowledge reality during discussions.
ptaipale 11y ago
>The Paris attackers were French and Belgian, not immigrants. Two of the nine were not - they were actual, recent immigrants through asylum-seeking process. "Ahmad al-Mohammad" who came as a refugee through Turkey to Leroa in Greece, and together with him were registered the fingerprints of another immigrant known as "M. al-Mahmodin". The rest were second-generation immigrants: Bilal Hadfi was French but he spent time in Syria and came back, not through controlled border crossings, so he might have come with the asylees/immigrants. Others included French citizens Samy Amimour, who fought in Yemen, and Omar Ismail Mostefai and Foued Mohamed-Aggad who fought in Syria, and they were on wanted lists but were not spotted on border, so they appear to have come through people smugglers as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Identification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Id...
- ascorbic 11y ago
  The fact that Hadfi probably returned with refugees doesn't mean much, when he could have easily jumped on the Easyjet from Istanbul and strolled through the blue channel. Yes, two more of them also probably came that way, one of whom was on a false passport. So yes, maybe they were Syrian refugees, but all that says is that they haven't been identified. The fact that the only one of them who travelled that way who was positively identified turned out to be French means this is by no means a foregone conclusion. If it turns out that they were in fact refugees, that still doesn't make it a migration problem when most of the attackers were French or Belgian.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    >The fact that Hadfi probably returned with refugees doesn't mean much, when he could have easily jumped on the Easyjet from Istanbul If he'd jumped on Easyjet from Istanbul, he'd have had to provide a passport and visa and risk being arrested at border check in case the authorities were too interested in his involvement with extremists. I don't get your point about blue channel; flights from Istanbul are not EU/Schengen internal. Again, that's not something that totally prevents acts of terror, but would work as a bit of deterrent. I believe I should have a voice about this, because I live in the same Schengen area.

matthewmacleod 11y ago

No they haven't. The recent attacks in Europe have not been caused by 'recent migrants'. That's just a bald-faced lie.

ptaipale 11y ago
In November Paris attacks, two of the nine actually were "recent migrants" as explained in another comment. So perhaps that "bald-faced lie" needs to be toned down a bit.

DanBC 11y ago

Caitlin Moran - > Always good, on days like this, to remind everyone that the guys blowing up Brussels are THE PEOPLE THE REFUGEES ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

braythwayt 11y ago

A throwaway account called “odinduty” is espousing anti-immigration sentiments? Will wonders never cease. But let’s stick to what HN does best, discuss the wonders of technology. In this case, I’d liek to administer a Turing Test: The hypothesis is that ”odinduty" is a reasonably sophisticated bot, trained to emulate the kind of comments you find on /r/Europeans. Can we find it making a statement inconsistent with this hypothesis?

DanBC 11y ago
It's probably better to flag, downvote, and ignore the obvious trolls.