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I wonder, when will politics and media finally give in to ask the real questions. Behaviour is determined by what you start with into life and what you learn d

by madez 11y ago

I wonder, when will politics and media finally give in to ask the real questions. Behaviour is determined by what you start with into life and what you learn during your life, that is genes and socialization. Now, if you take a birds eye view on the situation it comes clear to me that on both axis there are strong correlations among these terrorists. Realizing facts helps solving problems.

zdkl 11y ago
"genes"? Oh have you discovered a phenotype that predisposes to blowing oneself up?
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
You're right. People who grow up in a society feeling outcast are more likely to try and destroy it, unsurprisingly. Look at history's revolutionaries and troublemakers. Oh, wait, I think you were trying to say that we should use racial profiling without spelling it out. Oh.
- madez 11y ago
  What I ask for is to study the reasons and solutions to the problem of terrorism in a scientific manner, that is not fearing inconvenient answers. It's sad that one even has to ask for such an approach. In most cases it's undisputedly the only senseable one. You can't work scientifically if your fear of being labeled racist guides and censors you.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    That you think fear of appearing racist is stopping people telling the truth here is telling. We know why terrorism happens. We've known this for an awfully long time. We don't need unscientific nonsense about how brown people are magically terrorists. Science frequently comes up with inconvenient answers. But you might find that the science here is inconvenient towards your position, not others'.
    - madez 11y ago
      > That you think fear of appearing racist is stopping people telling the truth here is telling. I don't get this. My impression that the fear of being labeled racists makes people censor themselves is not something I only hear others saying but also the press specifically censors the ethnicity of wrongdoers because it might appear to be justification for racism. > We know why terrorism happens. We've known this for an awfully long time. I'm not so sure about that one. In any case, the fact that we still suffer from terrorism speaks its own language. > We don't need unscientific nonsense about how brown people are magically terrorists. I totally agree on that we don't need unscientific explanations. I call for the opposite. Ridiculing a point I never made doesn't help. > Science frequently comes up with inconvenient answers. But you might find that the science here is inconvenient towards your position, not others'. My position on this topic is in many parts neutral, because I'm happy to admit that I don't know all the facts nor do I understand the whole picture thoroughly. Thats why I wish for more investigation. Your last sentence baffles me.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
        > In any case, the fact that we still suffer from terrorism speaks its own language. Knowing why something happens doesn't mean it stops happening. First, some problems aren't easily solved. Second, there is not the will to solve some of them. Climate change is an example of this.
- petra 11y ago
  >> People who grow up in a society feeling outcast are more likely to try and destroy it, unsurprisingly. Look at history's revolutionaries and troublemakers. But it does not apply equally to all cultures(with muslims relatively extreme in that regard). The jews, for example we're badly treated for decades, with relatively little terrorism. The people of Tibet under china are also, quite peaceful.
DanBC 11y ago
This seems to ignore the fact that plenty of people who grew up outside Islam have turned to radical extremist Islam. I mean, look at the reason you have to take your shoes off every time you fly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
- madez 11y ago
  This is a strong indicator that socialization has a strong influence in what makes people become terrorists. We see one of the memes that have a positive correlation with terrorism very clearly; it's islam. People have reflexive denial when one points this out. You can spot this when they don't react to your arguments in a logical manner. If we finally accepted that islam is among other things a facist authoritarian political ideology, then we could eventually say "no" to Saudi Arabia building and controlling mosques in our countries. I wonder why people internalized political correctness as if it were a totalitarian ideology.
  - zdkl 11y ago
    I always take issue with the "become terrorist" line of thinking. What's saying there's a personal progression with an associated change of state? It might be more helpful to view these as events, brought upon by a continuous influence; the specifics of who acts out or why matter little when you consider the consequences, what matters could be to identify what environmental conditions are exploited to influence people towards these positions and affect that. This isn't intended as a defense for the choices or judgements of any party involved, I just wonder why we collectively cling to the notion of 'turning evil'. Pretty much any form of social-building construct is/has been construed as a fascist authoritarian political ideology, so how about abstracting that part of the debate and focusing on who's using which of these ideological tools? Your argument could be made about the US, does that mean you equate both organisations? Their differences may lie more in the intentions of the deciders than in the methods each use to advance their agendas. All parties have different means and unkown goals in so making informed guesses as to the why of it all seems a bit futile.
  - DanBC 11y ago

by madez 11y ago

zdkl 11y ago

"genes"? Oh have you discovered a phenotype that predisposes to blowing oneself up?

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

You're right. People who grow up in a society feeling outcast are more likely to try and destroy it, unsurprisingly. Look at history's revolutionaries and troublemakers. Oh, wait, I think you were trying to say that we should use racial profiling without spelling it out. Oh.

madez 11y ago
What I ask for is to study the reasons and solutions to the problem of terrorism in a scientific manner, that is not fearing inconvenient answers. It's sad that one even has to ask for such an approach. In most cases it's undisputedly the only senseable one. You can't work scientifically if your fear of being labeled racist guides and censors you.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  That you think fear of appearing racist is stopping people telling the truth here is telling. We know why terrorism happens. We've known this for an awfully long time. We don't need unscientific nonsense about how brown people are magically terrorists. Science frequently comes up with inconvenient answers. But you might find that the science here is inconvenient towards your position, not others'.
  - madez 11y ago
    > That you think fear of appearing racist is stopping people telling the truth here is telling. I don't get this. My impression that the fear of being labeled racists makes people censor themselves is not something I only hear others saying but also the press specifically censors the ethnicity of wrongdoers because it might appear to be justification for racism. > We know why terrorism happens. We've known this for an awfully long time. I'm not so sure about that one. In any case, the fact that we still suffer from terrorism speaks its own language. > We don't need unscientific nonsense about how brown people are magically terrorists. I totally agree on that we don't need unscientific explanations. I call for the opposite. Ridiculing a point I never made doesn't help. > Science frequently comes up with inconvenient answers. But you might find that the science here is inconvenient towards your position, not others'. My position on this topic is in many parts neutral, because I'm happy to admit that I don't know all the facts nor do I understand the whole picture thoroughly. Thats why I wish for more investigation. Your last sentence baffles me.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      > In any case, the fact that we still suffer from terrorism speaks its own language. Knowing why something happens doesn't mean it stops happening. First, some problems aren't easily solved. Second, there is not the will to solve some of them. Climate change is an example of this.
petra 11y ago
>> People who grow up in a society feeling outcast are more likely to try and destroy it, unsurprisingly. Look at history's revolutionaries and troublemakers. But it does not apply equally to all cultures(with muslims relatively extreme in that regard). The jews, for example we're badly treated for decades, with relatively little terrorism. The people of Tibet under china are also, quite peaceful.

DanBC 11y ago

This seems to ignore the fact that plenty of people who grew up outside Islam have turned to radical extremist Islam. I mean, look at the reason you have to take your shoes off every time you fly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

madez 11y ago
This is a strong indicator that socialization has a strong influence in what makes people become terrorists. We see one of the memes that have a positive correlation with terrorism very clearly; it's islam. People have reflexive denial when one points this out. You can spot this when they don't react to your arguments in a logical manner. If we finally accepted that islam is among other things a facist authoritarian political ideology, then we could eventually say "no" to Saudi Arabia building and controlling mosques in our countries. I wonder why people internalized political correctness as if it were a totalitarian ideology.
- zdkl 11y ago
  I always take issue with the "become terrorist" line of thinking. What's saying there's a personal progression with an associated change of state? It might be more helpful to view these as events, brought upon by a continuous influence; the specifics of who acts out or why matter little when you consider the consequences, what matters could be to identify what environmental conditions are exploited to influence people towards these positions and affect that. This isn't intended as a defense for the choices or judgements of any party involved, I just wonder why we collectively cling to the notion of 'turning evil'. Pretty much any form of social-building construct is/has been construed as a fascist authoritarian political ideology, so how about abstracting that part of the debate and focusing on who's using which of these ideological tools? Your argument could be made about the US, does that mean you equate both organisations? Their differences may lie more in the intentions of the deciders than in the methods each use to advance their agendas. All parties have different means and unkown goals in so making informed guesses as to the why of it all seems a bit futile.
- DanBC 11y ago