4 ms·

Vulkan's lower-level access certainly allows performance concerns to become the domain of the engine rather than the driver. Games standardizing on a few big en

by mappu 11y ago

Vulkan's lower-level access certainly allows performance concerns to become the domain of the engine rather than the driver. Games standardizing on a few big engines seems to be doing more for linux than when operating systems standardize on a few big APIs (which is necessary but not sufficient). Coupled with other recent news (the AMDGPU effort, 900-series firmware for kernel 4.6, ..) i'm cautiously optimistic about the future for 3D on linux - but mostly i'm cautiously optimistic at the cross-vendor adoption of Vulkan. Today a lot of enablement comes via vendor-specific tech (LiquidVR/GameWorks), and Vulkan has kept the scope open for extensions just like OpenGL did. I hope the industry has learned to avoid fragmentation after some of the horror stories from early DirectX[1]. -- 1. "The pixel shaders of Shader Model 1.0 were extremely specific to NVIDIA's hardware. There was no attempt made whatsoever at abstracting NVIDIA's hardware; SM 1.0 was just whatever the GeForce 3 did." -- http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/88055 http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/88055

pjmlp 11y ago
> I hope the industry has learned to avoid fragmentation after some of the horror stories from early DirectX[1]. They learned it so well, that except for urban legends OpenGL isn't used at all in game consoles and if it wasn't for Apple's adoption of OpenGL ES for iOS gaming, it would have been ignored as well. And now it has been shown the door on Apple platforms.
- shmerl 11y ago
  Except Apple's platforms will die out as high end gaming targets. As VR developers already said multiple times. Apple doesn't care about it apparently.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    The only VR guys that said that are Valve, which is just a studio in a sea of AAA studios. How well are they selling those Steam machines? What about that OpenGL and Vulkan support on the PS4, Wii and XBox? The games industry cares about delivering game experiences and selling IP, not FOSS APIs.
    - shmerl 11y ago
      > The only VR guys that said that are Valve No one argued with that because what they said is true. Apple are simply out of the VR picture. At least for now. > How well are they selling those Steam machines? Good enough I suppose, given that soon after Steam Machines were released, Sony and MS rushed to announce that they plan to update their hardware more frequently. Competition works. It doesn't mean it won't get even better. > The games industry cares You keep talking about it as if it's some single mind. It's not. > What about that OpenGL and Vulkan support on the PS4, Wii and XBox? You can forget about OpenGL. I expect Sony to add Vulkan supprot first, and then MS add it under pressure a few years later.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        > No one argued with that because what they said is true. Apple are simply out of the VR picture. At least for now. Until they release their own VRKit. > Good enough I suppose, given that soon after Steam Machines were released, Sony and MS rushed to announce that they plan to update their hardware more frequently. Competition works. It doesn't mean it won't get even better. So what are those dangerous the numbers of Steam Machines running SteamOS sales? Sony and MS have little to fear from those sales on a global scale, specially since most Steam Machines were actually being sold with Windows. > You keep talking about it as if it's some single mind. It's not. I was an IGDA member, attended a couple GDCE bot at London and Cologne, was part of the regular meetings of a game developments degree, had the opportunity to visit a well known AAA studios, including SCEE. Didn't stay as my position in regards to private life is not what the industry expects from the majority of developers. What is you experience on the industry? > You can forget about OpenGL. I expect Sony to add Vulkan supprot first, and then MS add it under pressure a few years later. Sony will only add Vulkan on their Android phones, because Google added it. They will never replace LibGCM with Vulkan, when their API and existing tools can do so much more.
        shmerl 11y ago
        > Until they release their own VRKit. Possible. Let them. > So what are those dangerous the numbers of Steam Machines running SteamOS sales? No idea, but MS and Sony's fear is telling. They are scared that their comfortable grip on the market will be busted. And that's good. Without competition they would have kept their 7 year hardware refresh cycle. Monopolists don't like change and move forward only under the pressure of competition. In result, consoles hardware will be more up to date, and games won't be held back by it like they often were until now. Thanks to Steam Machines. > had the opportunity to visit a well known AAA studios You mean controlled by legacy publishers and old media? Those are bad examples. It's not where innovation happens. > What is you experience on the industry? I'm interested in innovative studios, not in the old media controlled ones. For instance Cloud Imperium are working on adding Vulkan support to CryEngine at present. That's interesting. > Sony will only add Vulkan on their Android phones, because Google added it. Sony will only benefit by adding Vulkan on their PS#, and in the processing giving MS a kick in the rear. Wait and see.

by mappu 11y ago

pjmlp 11y ago

> I hope the industry has learned to avoid fragmentation after some of the horror stories from early DirectX[1]. They learned it so well, that except for urban legends OpenGL isn't used at all in game consoles and if it wasn't for Apple's adoption of OpenGL ES for iOS gaming, it would have been ignored as well. And now it has been shown the door on Apple platforms.

shmerl 11y ago
Except Apple's platforms will die out as high end gaming targets. As VR developers already said multiple times. Apple doesn't care about it apparently.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  The only VR guys that said that are Valve, which is just a studio in a sea of AAA studios. How well are they selling those Steam machines? What about that OpenGL and Vulkan support on the PS4, Wii and XBox? The games industry cares about delivering game experiences and selling IP, not FOSS APIs.
  - shmerl 11y ago
    > The only VR guys that said that are Valve No one argued with that because what they said is true. Apple are simply out of the VR picture. At least for now. > How well are they selling those Steam machines? Good enough I suppose, given that soon after Steam Machines were released, Sony and MS rushed to announce that they plan to update their hardware more frequently. Competition works. It doesn't mean it won't get even better. > The games industry cares You keep talking about it as if it's some single mind. It's not. > What about that OpenGL and Vulkan support on the PS4, Wii and XBox? You can forget about OpenGL. I expect Sony to add Vulkan supprot first, and then MS add it under pressure a few years later.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      > No one argued with that because what they said is true. Apple are simply out of the VR picture. At least for now. Until they release their own VRKit. > Good enough I suppose, given that soon after Steam Machines were released, Sony and MS rushed to announce that they plan to update their hardware more frequently. Competition works. It doesn't mean it won't get even better. So what are those dangerous the numbers of Steam Machines running SteamOS sales? Sony and MS have little to fear from those sales on a global scale, specially since most Steam Machines were actually being sold with Windows. > You keep talking about it as if it's some single mind. It's not. I was an IGDA member, attended a couple GDCE bot at London and Cologne, was part of the regular meetings of a game developments degree, had the opportunity to visit a well known AAA studios, including SCEE. Didn't stay as my position in regards to private life is not what the industry expects from the majority of developers. What is you experience on the industry? > You can forget about OpenGL. I expect Sony to add Vulkan supprot first, and then MS add it under pressure a few years later. Sony will only add Vulkan on their Android phones, because Google added it. They will never replace LibGCM with Vulkan, when their API and existing tools can do so much more.
      - shmerl 11y ago
        > Until they release their own VRKit. Possible. Let them. > So what are those dangerous the numbers of Steam Machines running SteamOS sales? No idea, but MS and Sony's fear is telling. They are scared that their comfortable grip on the market will be busted. And that's good. Without competition they would have kept their 7 year hardware refresh cycle. Monopolists don't like change and move forward only under the pressure of competition. In result, consoles hardware will be more up to date, and games won't be held back by it like they often were until now. Thanks to Steam Machines. > had the opportunity to visit a well known AAA studios You mean controlled by legacy publishers and old media? Those are bad examples. It's not where innovation happens. > What is you experience on the industry? I'm interested in innovative studios, not in the old media controlled ones. For instance Cloud Imperium are working on adding Vulkan support to CryEngine at present. That's interesting. > Sony will only add Vulkan on their Android phones, because Google added it. Sony will only benefit by adding Vulkan on their PS#, and in the processing giving MS a kick in the rear. Wait and see.