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Uh, when was the last time you worked with Java? Struts isn't a popular framework anymore and hasn't been for awhile. IntelliJ absolutely trounces VSS and some

Uh, when was the last time you worked with Java? Struts isn't a popular framework anymore and hasn't been for awhile. IntelliJ absolutely trounces VSS and some combination of Spring Boot, DropWizard or Vert.x blows ASP.NET MVC away. Not to mention the whole ecosystem is a hell of a lot more open. There is a library for just about anything under the sun.

mhd 11y ago
Enterprise environments tend to be very conservative when it comes to stuff they let you install or even use. Often you can't just drop JARs in there, never mind use your own JRE. So you're often stuck with technology that sites like these consider quite ancient… It gets even worse on desktops, as sysadmins might be able to isolate a server enough to allow some "new" tech, but vetting a new Java version or library for a few thousand office desktops is a task nobody really wants to do. So I wouldn't be surprised to still see some Java 1.4 Swing apps in use at big insurance or pharma companies. (And if I'd had to pick between that or do a web app that supports their IE8 browsers…)
- Recurecur 11y ago
  "Enterprise environments" also have to be very conservative about security issues - which often means they're forced to update to currently supported versions of software. Java 8 is the only version currently receiving security updates. The same thing applies to many other software packages, including browsers, Linux and Spring. Sane IA folks don't like to deploy known security holes. It sounds like you're dealing with some backwards-thinking folk. ;-)
  - mhd 11y ago
    We are talking about enterprise here, so backwards-thinking is part of the package. And if you're big enough, you can get by with outdated standard software, either by hiring special consultants or by costly vendor support. I'm pretty sure you can "convince" Oracle to accept your money. The alternative is auditing all your installed software packages with Java dependencies. Re-hire the agency that did that small Swing client 8 years ago. Hire someone completely new to reverse engineer another client because the original company went belly up. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. No wonder they'll do software cryonics. This is getting better slightly in recent years, when you no longer have that many desktop clients and utilities, as upgrading servers is way easier than building new default images for all your desktop clients.

mhd 11y ago

Enterprise environments tend to be very conservative when it comes to stuff they let you install or even use. Often you can't just drop JARs in there, never mind use your own JRE. So you're often stuck with technology that sites like these consider quite ancient… It gets even worse on desktops, as sysadmins might be able to isolate a server enough to allow some "new" tech, but vetting a new Java version or library for a few thousand office desktops is a task nobody really wants to do. So I wouldn't be surprised to still see some Java 1.4 Swing apps in use at big insurance or pharma companies. (And if I'd had to pick between that or do a web app that supports their IE8 browsers…)

Recurecur 11y ago
"Enterprise environments" also have to be very conservative about security issues - which often means they're forced to update to currently supported versions of software. Java 8 is the only version currently receiving security updates. The same thing applies to many other software packages, including browsers, Linux and Spring. Sane IA folks don't like to deploy known security holes. It sounds like you're dealing with some backwards-thinking folk. ;-)
- mhd 11y ago
  We are talking about enterprise here, so backwards-thinking is part of the package. And if you're big enough, you can get by with outdated standard software, either by hiring special consultants or by costly vendor support. I'm pretty sure you can "convince" Oracle to accept your money. The alternative is auditing all your installed software packages with Java dependencies. Re-hire the agency that did that small Swing client 8 years ago. Hire someone completely new to reverse engineer another client because the original company went belly up. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. No wonder they'll do software cryonics. This is getting better slightly in recent years, when you no longer have that many desktop clients and utilities, as upgrading servers is way easier than building new default images for all your desktop clients.