4 ms·

Are there still web designers who don't know how to code HTML and CSS? I haven't come across one in a while and would probably never hire one, so that's reason

by fnid2 17y ago

Are there still web designers who don't know how to code HTML and CSS? I haven't come across one in a while and would probably never hire one, so that's reason enough to learn how to code.

tibbon 17y ago
Yea- we've got a guy working with us now that lives only in Photoshop. He doesn't do illustration, he doesn't do animation, he doesn't code- just Photoshop and design. I'm not 100% certain that this is for the best. Many of his designs are difficult to implement and I feel that a stronger understanding of the code would help his designs a lot.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- tjogin 17y ago
  True, definitely, I absolutely agree. But have you not also worked with coders who are fundamentally inept at design, making it seem like they're almost blind? I know I have, but for some reason we seem to more often accept this kind of very similar lack of tangential skill level.
  - tibbon 17y ago
    Right- the argument on the other side of the aisle is, "coders don't know anything about design and produce nothing but horridly ugly pages". They cite a few programmers that didn't meet some art-school design standard about font spacing and then want to take away the ability to effect design from the coders at all. Functional and elegant rarely equate to a designer as they do to a coder. For example, I know that many of them would really dislike Hacker News. Not enough, "pop" or "zing" to it.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      Design isn't pop and zing (I'm aware of the reference). Design is not a coat of paint. Maybe you're just joking, but it doesn't matter because even if you are, there is no lack of programmers who don't have any better of design fundamentals than exactly that poor an understanding. My point is simply that before we complain about designers lack of coding ability, perhaps we should first educate those in our own trade about the fundamentals of design — because coders are no better at this. Glasshouses, and all that.
tjogin 17y ago
HTML/CSS may seem so simple as to not even count as coding, to us coders, that is. But consider the fact that many coders don't have the most basic grasp of design. Not even really fundamental things like alignment, proportions, which colors go well together, or even how to phrase a sentence so it makes sense to the user — which isn't even design, it's just english. I think it's kind of a jerk move for coders to expect designers to like or care about coding, even really simple fundamental stuff, when many coders are notoriously lacking in the design or even taste departments. Having said that, it is obviously a huge benefit for both coders and designers to at least know the basics of the other's trade. One could even argue that you're not really a truly talented developer nor designer until you do; but, before we come down on designers, let's look at the state of design skills in the coding community.
chrisrhee 17y ago
> Are there still web designers who don't know how to code HTML and CSS? Lots. Big agencies I know of have designers who spend all day in Adobe products and don't touch the code. These are the people creating official sites for movies, video games, Fortune 1000 brands, etc. So it depends on where you find web designers: If it's through blogs and such, then yeah, a bigger percentage of them will also do front-end code. But from my experience, agencies tend to compartmentalize.

by fnid2 17y ago

Are there still web designers who don't know how to code HTML and CSS? I haven't come across one in a while and would probably never hire one, so that's reason enough to learn how to code.

tibbon 17y ago

Yea- we've got a guy working with us now that lives only in Photoshop. He doesn't do illustration, he doesn't do animation, he doesn't code- just Photoshop and design. I'm not 100% certain that this is for the best. Many of his designs are difficult to implement and I feel that a stronger understanding of the code would help his designs a lot.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
tjogin 17y ago
True, definitely, I absolutely agree. But have you not also worked with coders who are fundamentally inept at design, making it seem like they're almost blind? I know I have, but for some reason we seem to more often accept this kind of very similar lack of tangential skill level.
- tibbon 17y ago
  Right- the argument on the other side of the aisle is, "coders don't know anything about design and produce nothing but horridly ugly pages". They cite a few programmers that didn't meet some art-school design standard about font spacing and then want to take away the ability to effect design from the coders at all. Functional and elegant rarely equate to a designer as they do to a coder. For example, I know that many of them would really dislike Hacker News. Not enough, "pop" or "zing" to it.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    Design isn't pop and zing (I'm aware of the reference). Design is not a coat of paint. Maybe you're just joking, but it doesn't matter because even if you are, there is no lack of programmers who don't have any better of design fundamentals than exactly that poor an understanding. My point is simply that before we complain about designers lack of coding ability, perhaps we should first educate those in our own trade about the fundamentals of design — because coders are no better at this. Glasshouses, and all that.

tjogin 17y ago

HTML/CSS may seem so simple as to not even count as coding, to us coders, that is. But consider the fact that many coders don't have the most basic grasp of design. Not even really fundamental things like alignment, proportions, which colors go well together, or even how to phrase a sentence so it makes sense to the user — which isn't even design, it's just english. I think it's kind of a jerk move for coders to expect designers to like or care about coding, even really simple fundamental stuff, when many coders are notoriously lacking in the design or even taste departments. Having said that, it is obviously a huge benefit for both coders and designers to at least know the basics of the other's trade. One could even argue that you're not really a truly talented developer nor designer until you do; but, before we come down on designers, let's look at the state of design skills in the coding community.

chrisrhee 17y ago

> Are there still web designers who don't know how to code HTML and CSS? Lots. Big agencies I know of have designers who spend all day in Adobe products and don't touch the code. These are the people creating official sites for movies, video games, Fortune 1000 brands, etc. So it depends on where you find web designers: If it's through blogs and such, then yeah, a bigger percentage of them will also do front-end code. But from my experience, agencies tend to compartmentalize.