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> [Yale] can't spend 2%(540/26,000) of their endowment per year on free tuition? What is this money for? The purpose of research universities is to engage in s

by Pyxl101 11y ago

> [Yale] can't spend 2%(540/26,000) of their endowment per year on free tuition? What is this money for? The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. Education is one of their activities but not their primary goal. For more about this, read "The Purpose of Harvard is Not to Educate People" [1]: > But there is one misimpression that people seem to have[]: the purpose of Harvard is not to educate students. If anything, its primary purpose is to produce research and scholarly work. Nobody should be surprised that the gigantic endowment isn’t put to use in providing top-flight educational experiences for a much larger pool of students; it could be, for sure, but that’s not the goal. The endowment is there to help build new facilities, launch new research initiatives, and attract the best faculty. The purpose of an endowment is to generate an income stream forever. It's typical for the organization with an endowment to spend only what they earn in interest at most, with some preferring to spend less so that the endowment grows over time. It's possible that they're investing so well that they can afford to spend 2% every year, but that's just one cost among many costs that the university has - such as paying for its staff, its facilities (real estate, buildings, and so on) - and staff and buildings that help produce research. [1] http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/...

santaclaus 11y ago
> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. Shouldn't Yale be kicking everyone's butt here, then? Yale engineering ranks a paltry number 38, with quite a few publics far ahead of it.
- djcapelis 11y ago
  Yes. Funny, that. Turns out money can't buy everything. Especially when directed at the things that don't matter.
  - akhilcacharya 11y ago
    In the case of Yale, it does buy prestige.
    - alexvoda 11y ago
      It buys prestige within the group that values universities. But that group is shrinking. The more people reach the conclusion that attending these private universities have bad ROI compared to other educational resources the more people will loose trust in them and the less valuable that prestige is.
      - avn2109 11y ago
        If this claim were true, the admissions rate at Yale would be rising. In fact it is falling/steady at Yale and most (all) of Yale's peer institutions.
  - hkmurakami 11y ago
    Considering USC's rapid rise up the rankings by employing their money wisely, I would say that you can in fact "buy" engineering ranking in US News, if the institution makes it a priority.
- ssalazar 11y ago
  University research encompasses more than just engineering.
bachmeier 11y ago
> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. I take issue with a couple things in that sentence. That is the goal of a small number of private research universities. I don't know of any public research universities, even the highest ranking, that don't dedicate significant resources to undergraduate education. The second thing is that the mission of Harvard et al is primarily scholarship (in any field) and graduate education, not just scientific research. These are minor points relative to your comment but I don't want the public to believe all research universities exist to do only scientific research.
JackFr 11y ago
> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. Education is one of their activities but not their primary goal. For more about this, read "The Purpose of Harvard is Not to Educate People" Actually, no. Despite what some physicist may have written in an op-ed in Discover magazine, The Charter of the President and Fellows of Harvard College says something quite different: "Whereas, through the good hand of God, many well devoted persons have been, and daily are moved, and stirred up, to give and bestow, sundry gifts, legacies, lands, and revenues for the advancement of all good literature, arts, and sciences in Harvard College, in Cambridge in the County of Middlesex, and to the maintenance of the President and Fellows, and for all accommodations of buildings, and all other necessary provisions, that may conduce to the education of the English and Indian youth of this country, in knowledge and godliness: It is therefore ordered, and enacted by this Court, and the authority thereof, that for the furthering of so good a work and for the purposes aforesaid, from henceforth that the said College, in Cambridge in Middlesex, in New England, shall be a Corporation, consisting of seven persons, to wit, a President, five Fellows, and a Treasurer or Bursar. . . " Also worth noting from the text, was that over 350 years ago, it was the growing endowment which led to the incorporation. . . http://library.harvard.edu/university-archives/using-the-collections/online-resources/charter-of-1650 http://library.harvard.edu/university-archives/using-the-col...
juliendorra 11y ago
The founding principle of universities (in Paris and Bologna 5 centuries ago…) was educating students outside of the clerical teaching system in place at the time. In Bologna it was even more striking, as it was the (foreign) students that created the university and found, paid and lead the teachers. From what I understand in Paris it was more teacher-lead. From what I read in this thread, Harvard has not a all deviated from this when it was founded (but might have been taken over by other interests now, of course).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
mathattack 11y ago
Most endowments spend more than 2% per year. There's a 5% minimum spend for non-university endowments, and there has been pressure for universities to apply this too.

by Pyxl101 11y ago

santaclaus 11y ago

> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. Shouldn't Yale be kicking everyone's butt here, then? Yale engineering ranks a paltry number 38, with quite a few publics far ahead of it.

djcapelis 11y ago
Yes. Funny, that. Turns out money can't buy everything. Especially when directed at the things that don't matter.
- akhilcacharya 11y ago
  In the case of Yale, it does buy prestige.
  - alexvoda 11y ago
    It buys prestige within the group that values universities. But that group is shrinking. The more people reach the conclusion that attending these private universities have bad ROI compared to other educational resources the more people will loose trust in them and the less valuable that prestige is.
    - avn2109 11y ago
      If this claim were true, the admissions rate at Yale would be rising. In fact it is falling/steady at Yale and most (all) of Yale's peer institutions.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  Considering USC's rapid rise up the rankings by employing their money wisely, I would say that you can in fact "buy" engineering ranking in US News, if the institution makes it a priority.
ssalazar 11y ago
University research encompasses more than just engineering.

bachmeier 11y ago

> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. I take issue with a couple things in that sentence. That is the goal of a small number of private research universities. I don't know of any public research universities, even the highest ranking, that don't dedicate significant resources to undergraduate education. The second thing is that the mission of Harvard et al is primarily scholarship (in any field) and graduate education, not just scientific research. These are minor points relative to your comment but I don't want the public to believe all research universities exist to do only scientific research.

JackFr 11y ago

> The purpose of research universities is to engage in scientific research, not to educate people. Education is one of their activities but not their primary goal. For more about this, read "The Purpose of Harvard is Not to Educate People" Actually, no. Despite what some physicist may have written in an op-ed in Discover magazine, The Charter of the President and Fellows of Harvard College says something quite different: "Whereas, through the good hand of God, many well devoted persons have been, and daily are moved, and stirred up, to give and bestow, sundry gifts, legacies, lands, and revenues for the advancement of all good literature, arts, and sciences in Harvard College, in Cambridge in the County of Middlesex, and to the maintenance of the President and Fellows, and for all accommodations of buildings, and all other necessary provisions, that may conduce to the education of the English and Indian youth of this country, in knowledge and godliness: It is therefore ordered, and enacted by this Court, and the authority thereof, that for the furthering of so good a work and for the purposes aforesaid, from henceforth that the said College, in Cambridge in Middlesex, in New England, shall be a Corporation, consisting of seven persons, to wit, a President, five Fellows, and a Treasurer or Bursar. . . " Also worth noting from the text, was that over 350 years ago, it was the growing endowment which led to the incorporation. . . http://library.harvard.edu/university-archives/using-the-collections/online-resources/charter-of-1650 http://library.harvard.edu/university-archives/using-the-col...

juliendorra 11y ago

The founding principle of universities (in Paris and Bologna 5 centuries ago…) was educating students outside of the clerical teaching system in place at the time. In Bologna it was even more striking, as it was the (foreign) students that created the university and found, paid and lead the teachers. From what I understand in Paris it was more teacher-lead. From what I read in this thread, Harvard has not a all deviated from this when it was founded (but might have been taken over by other interests now, of course).

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

mathattack 11y ago

Most endowments spend more than 2% per year. There's a 5% minimum spend for non-university endowments, and there has been pressure for universities to apply this too.