4 ms·

Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opini

by JoBrad 11y ago

Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opinion, while it works well in single-app circumstances, iOS' model is completely backward, from a user standpoint. An app is simply a tool that allows me to accomplish some goal. So it's not that I want to mess with the file system as much as I want to work with some file, and the app-centric model robs you of a lot of productivity when trying to accomplish this - especially if you ever need to switch back and forth between apps to work on a single file.

dkonofalski 11y ago
Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?
- JoBrad 11y ago
  Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
- SiVal 11y ago
  Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.
  - moftz 11y ago
    If a power user needs to do all of these things, chances are they aren't going to even think of trying to do this all on a tablet ala iPad. People use tablets to do simple tasks (check email, browse web, basic photo/doc editing, etc) that don't require something at least as big as a laptop. It's supposed to be a simple environment for doing simple tasks quickly. It's meant for people wanting a device that Just Works (TM) without getting bogged down in trying to get App A working with App B with App C with App D. This really is a non-issue and will always be one. If you need to do some heavy work, do it on a laptop. You can buy tons of different laptops now that are very thin and don't take up much more room in your backpack than a tablet would. If you need any more power, then rent a compile server. There is always going to be a cost for having a portable device, it's that you won't be able to get all of your work done on it. The real issue is when OS developers try to push this simple, tablet environment to devices that shouldn't need it.
    - SiVal 11y ago
      There's no touch, no pen, no direct drawing or manipulation on any Mac laptop or desktop screen, and Apple says there never will be, because nobody wants it.
      - mconzen 11y ago
        Sure, but Apple also said that no one wanted a stylus on a tablet. If the technology and market exist to do it well and make it a success, they'll make it. Touch and pen manipulation on laptop and desktop screens so far have done little to show that this is something any significant portion of the market actually wants. Personally, I have two touch-enabled laptops and the only time I interact with the touch screen is when I try to point at something in conversation and am unpleasantly surprised when it moves the cursor.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    Then I guess I just disagree with you. I'm a web developer/designer. I'm very familiar with having different tools, workflows, and project folders. That's not the kind of thing that's useful on a tablet device. Can I probably do some development (or similar work) on a tablet? Sure. Is that really the best place to be doing a multi-tool, multi-pronged task? Definitely no.
- drivingmenuts 11y ago
  If you have to rely on a third-party service for something as basic as sharing a file between two apps on the same device, then that is a major failure on the part of the device maker. The idea of sand boxing is a good one, but there needs to be an option for those of us who know what they are doing, or are willing to take a risk. I shouldn't have to rely on cloud availability constantly.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    The Share/Action menus in iOS are global for the OS. What do you mean by third-party service? If you can open a filetype in an app on iOS, it'll show up on the action menu for that type of file. I don't understand what you're trying to say. There's no failure of the device here that requires a third party app.
    - drivingmenuts 11y ago
      I was responding to the idea that you have to have iCloud and/or Dropbox sometimes to exchange files with another app on the same device. Sure, if you want to exchange with another device - but not an app.

by JoBrad 11y ago

dkonofalski 11y ago

Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?

JoBrad 11y ago
Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
SiVal 11y ago
Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.
- moftz 11y ago
  If a power user needs to do all of these things, chances are they aren't going to even think of trying to do this all on a tablet ala iPad. People use tablets to do simple tasks (check email, browse web, basic photo/doc editing, etc) that don't require something at least as big as a laptop. It's supposed to be a simple environment for doing simple tasks quickly. It's meant for people wanting a device that Just Works (TM) without getting bogged down in trying to get App A working with App B with App C with App D. This really is a non-issue and will always be one. If you need to do some heavy work, do it on a laptop. You can buy tons of different laptops now that are very thin and don't take up much more room in your backpack than a tablet would. If you need any more power, then rent a compile server. There is always going to be a cost for having a portable device, it's that you won't be able to get all of your work done on it. The real issue is when OS developers try to push this simple, tablet environment to devices that shouldn't need it.
  - SiVal 11y ago
    There's no touch, no pen, no direct drawing or manipulation on any Mac laptop or desktop screen, and Apple says there never will be, because nobody wants it.
    - mconzen 11y ago
      Sure, but Apple also said that no one wanted a stylus on a tablet. If the technology and market exist to do it well and make it a success, they'll make it. Touch and pen manipulation on laptop and desktop screens so far have done little to show that this is something any significant portion of the market actually wants. Personally, I have two touch-enabled laptops and the only time I interact with the touch screen is when I try to point at something in conversation and am unpleasantly surprised when it moves the cursor.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  Then I guess I just disagree with you. I'm a web developer/designer. I'm very familiar with having different tools, workflows, and project folders. That's not the kind of thing that's useful on a tablet device. Can I probably do some development (or similar work) on a tablet? Sure. Is that really the best place to be doing a multi-tool, multi-pronged task? Definitely no.
drivingmenuts 11y ago
If you have to rely on a third-party service for something as basic as sharing a file between two apps on the same device, then that is a major failure on the part of the device maker. The idea of sand boxing is a good one, but there needs to be an option for those of us who know what they are doing, or are willing to take a risk. I shouldn't have to rely on cloud availability constantly.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  The Share/Action menus in iOS are global for the OS. What do you mean by third-party service? If you can open a filetype in an app on iOS, it'll show up on the action menu for that type of file. I don't understand what you're trying to say. There's no failure of the device here that requires a third party app.
  - drivingmenuts 11y ago
    I was responding to the idea that you have to have iCloud and/or Dropbox sometimes to exchange files with another app on the same device. Sure, if you want to exchange with another device - but not an app.